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 Post subject: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:23 pm
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Location: East Troy, Wisconsin
Just after G5 after the ride home in the rain, I was draining the bilge to remove rain water when I noticed a small amount of fuel in the water. I pulled out all the flotation to clean some off and to try and determine the source. I was able to look over most of the bottom but could not find anything.

After the the Lake Geneva show, and more rain, I found more fuel in the bilge. Not much, but enough to cause a stink. That was when I noticed a small pool of fuel in the motor well. I discovered that priming the tipped motor was a bad idea and attributed the fuel in the bilge to possibly being from the carbs draining into the well and possibly seeping into the bilge.

When I was checking the bilge yesterday, I noticed what I thought to be a lot of water in the bilge up front, soaking the carpet mats. The smell of fuel was much stronger yesterday. I pulled out the mats and tipped up the trailer to allow the "water" to be drained out the bilge plugs in the transom. I caught the drainage in a pan to later pour into a glass measuring cup to see how much was fuel and how much was water. I had never seen this much liquid in the bilge before and was concerned I had a major hull leak. I could not see any evidence of damage or any loss of hull integrity.

When I dumped the liquid into the measuring cup, I was surprised to see it was all fuel. I drained about 1 1/2 qts out of pure fuel and about 1 oz. of water. YIKES!!!! Apparently one of the seam welds on the AL fuel tank was poorly formed and slowly opened up to where a leak could be detected. I drained the fuel from the tank and pulled it out. Glad I made it easily accessible. Along the side on the bottom seam weld I found a section about two inches long that was weeping fuel. The weld looked good, but there must have been poor weld penetration and lack of fusion along the toe of the weld or a micro crack developed along the toe. This tank was tig welded and the weld was smooth and well formed.

I did a search for a new tank and decided to go with a Moeller tank of similar size and shape. The AL tank was made by RCI. If you have one, I suggest checking it for leaks. The new Moeller tank I ordered is the below deck style and is supposed to be less permeable. It is a little taller, but the same footprint as the RCI tank. I will need to relocate the fuel filler, but that will make filling easier as I will not use the gooseneck I had on the RCI, so that is good. It also hold two more gallons.

I mixed up some Dawn and hot water and flushed out the hull with that and lots of water. The carpets were tossed and everything else cleaned. I'm glad I did a thorough job encapsulating the hull as I doubt anything leaked into the wood. I'm also glad I designed the soul the way I did so I could get at most of the bottom to be able to examine and clean it. It is also comforting to know that I do not have a hull breach.

The AL tank was pressure tested and checked for leaks before I installed it. Nothing showed up at that time. The leak apparently increased over the last month since it was first filled as there was no evidence until after G5. Possibly the 1400 mile trip caused a weak weld to open up. The mounting was solid and performed as suggested in a website on mounting AL tanks in boats. At any rate, I will be using the Moeller tank, which appears to be much better.

Roberta :roll:

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Roberta
Built Zip "Oliver IV" and Super Spartan "Jimmy 70"


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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:47 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 4394
Location: North Carolina
Thank goodness that you found this. We should always be vigilant early on and take nothing for granted. I remember the part of the build that you agonized over the layout. Cheers to your patience which seems to have paid off too. Access and the ability to service even the smallest and remote regions should always be kept in mind in these smallest hulls. Make sure that if you are semi hiding any tank or fuel line that you spend the extra dough :wink: to purchase below deck fuel lines too, which also minimizes some issues that may occur with chafing from the natural vibration.


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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:45 am
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Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
Glad you found it!

Planning access to everthing is what makes a home build better in many ways to a production boats. I know many boats that you would have to cut up to fix this same issue.

Bill

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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:42 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:50 pm
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Location: Branson, MO
WOW - glad you found it now

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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:23 pm
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Location: East Troy, Wisconsin
Thanks, guys!! That was quite a shocker. We couldn't understand why the hangar was so filled with fumes. Before G5 everything was normal. It only took me about 15 minutes to get the tank out once I drained it. I'm still airing out the hangar. The new Moeller tank will go in without much changing. Just need to get a clamshell vent for the current fuel filler location and drill a new hole for the Moeller.

Roberta

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Built Zip "Oliver IV" and Super Spartan "Jimmy 70"


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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:34 am
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Location: ATL Burbs and Lake Chatuge, GA
That's good detective work Roberta. I'm glad you detected it and solved it. I've noticed a fuel smell around my boat. More at the front and I suspect it's coming from my vent which is on the deck. I've run my hand around the tank and surrounding area. I've wiped around with a paper towel trying to detect the slightest dampness and have found nothing. I always notice it after I climb aboard and sit up front. It is parked in my garage and I think the back and forth motion of the trailer moving against the wheel chocks when I am boarding must be shaking the fuel in the tank. Then, I get a whiff of fuel coming from the vent which is on the deck...at least that is what I think is happening.

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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:23 am 
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Location: East Troy, Wisconsin
There will always be something, especially since our tanks are vented, but when your eyes start to water, it's time to do some serious lookin'. :lol: I went with AL because I did not like the permeability of the plastic, but the new Moeller's claim to be better. Hope so!!

Roberta :D

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Built Zip "Oliver IV" and Super Spartan "Jimmy 70"


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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
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Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta
Sucks that you have to buy a 2nd tank so early. Glad you found it early and glad nothing else got damaged as a result.

I designed most everything on the inside of my boat to be removable.. the floor, the sides of the arm rests, fuel & battery platforms... so I can check every square inch of the hull interior for damage just in case. I hope it turns out to be uncessary, but the peace of mind was worth the design comprimises for full access.

Sorry about the carpets also... I hope the Moeller performs and this becomes a distant memory.

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My Malahini Build


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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:23 pm
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Location: East Troy, Wisconsin
Thanks, Ian!! I was just starting to have real fun with the boat on Wednesday, the night before I found the leak. I was really upset when I thought all the liquid in the hull was mostly water. I'm happy to replace the tank as opposed to trying to repair a hull leak. But it would have been nice not to do either. That leak just seems so unnecessary. The tank looked very quality made. I would have tried to get a replacement, but it was purchased over a year ago. I did not feel comfortable about that tank anymore and after looking more into the Moeller tanks, decided that they would be better. The boat should be tiptop by spring and I hope to do a lot of boating next summer.

Roberta :D :D :D :D

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Roberta
Built Zip "Oliver IV" and Super Spartan "Jimmy 70"


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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
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Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta
I'd be tempted to send the manufacturer of the AL tank notice of what happened so they can have their Q.C. take a look at their processes. Even if they don't step-up on warranty/service... letting them know will give them the opportunity to save their reputation.

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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:06 am 
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Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
Quote:
letting them know will give them the opportunity to save their reputation.


And the safety of another boater!

Bill

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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:12 am 
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Location: East Troy, Wisconsin
I will do that now.

Roberta

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Built Zip "Oliver IV" and Super Spartan "Jimmy 70"


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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:25 pm
Posts: 3423
Location: Coastal Georgia
Roberta,
You may not realize how lucky you are. There is a experienced fiberglass boat repair yard in my town. recently he repaired a fuel tank leak in a factory built offshore boat, 30 footer, and 2 years old.
It looked a lot like this
Image
There was a clamp that rubbed the aluminum tank until a pinhole appeared. Then the pinhole saturated the floatation foam with fuel. The foam didnt melt nor deteriorate, but it just absorbed the fuel. the fuel tanks are glassed under the floor and inaccessible, he had to cut the boat to access the tank to make the repair. (it was a 2 dollar clamp) That was only to make the tank repair, there wasnt anything to do to get the fuel out of the foam.
Can you imagine what kind of bomb that thing is? What if there was a electrical problem under the floor? What if you were 30 miles offshore when you got a problem? what if you paid $175,000 for that boat??

Sometimes I hear calls that question the integrity of a homebuilt boat.
Then I have to question 'how safe is a bilge that is accessible'?

How safe is a fuel tank that is inaccessible?

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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:29 am 
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Location: Owasso, Oklahoma
Wow Roberta...glad you found the source.

When I got home from G5 and drained all the excess rain out of the bilge I found a lot oil coming out with the water...what the heck???? Turns out the remains of my gallon of two stroke oil had chaffed through and dumped about a quart of oil in the boat. Now I get to powerwash the driveway again.

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I told my wife we needed a three-car garage for my projects...she told me to ask her for permission next time before I buy a house.
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 Post subject: Re: EEYYYEEWW!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:23 pm
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Location: East Troy, Wisconsin
Thank goodness for the encapsulation of the interior or the hull. I would be in deep do do if that fuel would have soaked into the wood. I flooded the interior with hot water and Dawn dish detergent and then rinsed thoroughly with water. Seems I escaped this bullet.

I did email RCI, the tank maker, but I have not received any response. I would avoid their products.

Roberta :D :D :D

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Built Zip "Oliver IV" and Super Spartan "Jimmy 70"


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