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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:05 pm 
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Location: Rolling Hills,WY
http://www.wsmv.com/story/16773393/state-threatens-suit

I cannot believe this is happening, but it was on the news today and I thought I would pass it along as a cautionary tell for those building. This will impact all of us in one way or another.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:32 pm 
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What we have here is a government moron epidemic. Incredible. I just recently filed my tax forms with the county up in N GA where our lake and boat are. I'm waiting to see what nonsense they come up with on my tax bill. It should be less than what I would have to pay if I registered it in my residence county, but...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Location: Milford, NH
That is completely idiotic.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:00 am 
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Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
:? The implication here are rediculus :!:

If your wife makes a pillow, is she a manufacture/dealer? If she sells it at a consignment shop, is she a dealer? :?

If she sells a dress at that shop, is she a dealer if she made the dress? But, not a dealer if she bought the dress? :?

Man this is stupid :!: How can you be a dealer if you haven't sold or put anything up for sale?

Bill

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:06 am 
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Location: Marietta, GA
More bureaucratic BS from our elected morons.
I really hope he's able to fight this and win. This could set a bad precedent for other states to follow. :x

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:09 am 
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Location: North Carolina
This could apply to anyone that has built a boat and used it and then sold it. I think sales taxes are paid on most boat parts, under most circumstances which also should surfice in this case. Boat dealers and even manufacturers defer the sale tax until the boat is sold on a retail market anyway.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Location: Ogden, Utah-Jubilee build
Oyster wrote:
This could apply to anyone that has built a boat and used it and then sold it. I think sales taxes are paid on most boat parts, under most circumstances which also should suffice in this case. Boat dealers and even manufacturers defer the sale tax until the boat is sold on a retail market anyway.

what is bad is we usually pay retail prices with taxes included on the material on our builds and build for our own use. I really hope he gets some since knocked into them.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Lowka53 wrote:
Oyster wrote:
This could apply to anyone that has built a boat and used it and then sold it. I think sales taxes are paid on most boat parts, under most circumstances which also should suffice in this case. Boat dealers and even manufacturers defer the sale tax until the boat is sold on a retail market anyway.

what is bad is we usually pay retail prices with taxes included on the material on our builds and build for our own use. I really hope he gets some since knocked into them.


It looked like there was some mention of this in the official document about showing receipts for materials....it would be interesting to see if he retained these, or threw them out and tried to register w/o tax receipts.

Lot's of members on here have registered their home built boats with minimal problems

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:50 pm 
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Location: Ogden, Utah-Jubilee build
:roll: they might have bought the material for farm use which is tax deferred or at least in Ohio it is.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:14 pm 
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Location: Memphis, TN area
I live in TN. I wrote my district's state senator and representative about this outrage, tonight. I used some of the arguments posted here, worded succinctly.

Pray for sanity to be blessed upon petty bureaucrats, everywhere!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:00 am 
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Location: North Carolina
TN Dept. of Revenue speaks out on boat controversy
Posted: Feb 10, 2012 9:39 PM CST
Updated: Feb 10, 2012 10:09 PM CST
Posted by Nancy Amons - email
MURFREESBORO, TN (WSMV) - A state representative thought it was a joke when he heard that a father and his young son had been labeled as "boat dealers" because of a small, wood boat they built in their garage.

The family has been getting letters from the Tennessee Department of Revenue threatening them with court actions, fines and liens if they didn't pay $539 in taxes on their fishing boat.

Johnathan King and his 7-year-old son Carter spent three weeks assembling the 14-foot boat according to plans they ordered over the Internet. After registering the boat, they started getting correspondence from the revenue department referring to them as "boat manufacturers and dealers."

State representative Joe Carr didn't believe it when he first heard about it.

"I initially thought it was a joke, because it was so absurd," Carr says.

"No reasonable person would believe that Mr. King is in the manufacturing business for boats," he says.

"Initially, I thought it was an error," King says. After he told the state this was just a small fishing boat the two had built at home, he expected the revenue department would relent, but they did not.

"To put it politely, I thought it was quite silly," King says.

Carr says either revenue is misinterpreting the law and taking it to an extreme, or the law needs to be fixed. He meets with revenue officials Monday.

If their theory holds true, he says, it's a slippery slope.

"If, as an individual, I go to Home Depot or Lowe's or some lumber yard, and I decide I'm going to build a picnic table for my patio, does that make me a furniture manufacturer?" Carr says.

Since Channel 4 first reported the story Wednesday, the topic has been widely discussed on blogs across the country.

"Seems ludicrous," someone from the northeast wrote on woodenboat.com. "Can't be a manufacturer or dealer if you're not making the product for sale."

The Department of Revenue issued a statement after we asked them for three days to explain their position.

"It is not the Department's position that an individual who builds a boat from a kit or component parts is in the business of selling boats," write communications manager Billy Trout.

The statement says the term"dealer," which is used in the tax statutes, also refers to a purchaser. They regret if information from the department was confusing.

The revenue department's statement explains that state statutes protect taxpayer privacy, and therefore, they cannot discuss tax matters involving particular taxpayers.

"We would like to provide some general information about use tax and boats," the statement says.

"Generally, sales tax is collected by the seller when an item, such as a boat, a boat kit, or component parts, are purchased. Sometimes, such as when the item is purchased outside the state, the tax is not collected by the seller. In those cases, the purchaser must pay, under state law, a "use tax" on the item. Use tax is equal to the sales tax that normally would have been collected by the seller. The purpose of use tax is to ensure that all purchases are taxed alike, whether bought from a seller in Tennessee or outside the state.

"When a boat is registered, the boat owner is required by law to document that sales or use tax was paid on the price of the boat. If the boat was built from a kit or other component parts, the owner must show that sales or use tax was paid on the kit or parts. Receipts or invoices are acceptable proof, as are records that show the taxpayer paid use tax directly to the Department of Revenue. When no information is provided, the Department must determine whether tax is due."

King says he's pulling together invoices and receipts for all the building materials used in the boat, but it's difficult, since some materials were purchased as much as three years ago.

He says he's absolutely not a boat dealer, and would never sell the boat, which he considers an heirloom to be passed on to his son's children some day.

"It ought to last 30 or 40 years," King says.

"We must now defend ourselves as dealers. I'm still trying to get my mind around the docket, 'Tennessee Department of Revenue vs. Carter King, 7 years old,'" King says.

Copyright 2012 WSMV (Meredith Corporation). All rights reserved

http://www.wsmv.com/story/16912107/r...at-controversy


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:23 pm 
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After reading Oyster's post it appears this is once again the case where the media "shoots first and asks questions later." But then again if they asked first this wouldn't have been a big story that received national attention = $$.

Sounds like Tennessee's law is very similar to Illinois. When registering a newly built boat they want to insure all the appropriate sales tax are paid. The Department of Conservation won't license it until the Department of Revenue signs off on the deal. They request a bill of sale or receipts of the materials used to construct it that show sales tax paid. I had to write a substantial check when I registered mine because of internet purchases where there was no sales tax charged. Appears the Tennessee statutes referees to the person registering the boat as a "dealer" but it is really a moot point as anyone producing the craft and registering it is responsible for the tax.

So in my opinion it is once again the media making a big deal out of nothing to improve their bottom line. :evil:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:37 am 
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raymacke wrote:
After reading Oyster's post it appears this is once again the case where the media "shoots first and asks questions later." But then again if they asked first this wouldn't have been a big story that received national attention = $$.

Sounds like Tennessee's law is very similar to Illinois. When registering a newly built boat they want to insure all the appropriate sales tax are paid. The Department of Conservation won't license it until the Department of Revenue signs off on the deal. They request a bill of sale or receipts of the materials used to construct it that show sales tax paid. I had to write a substantial check when I registered mine because of internet purchases where there was no sales tax charged. Appears the Tennessee statutes referees to the person registering the boat as a "dealer" but it is really a moot point as anyone producing the craft and registering it is responsible for the tax.

So in my opinion it is once again the media making a big deal out of nothing to improve their bottom line. :evil:


that plus MAYBE someone not thinking or doing homework and throwing out receipts (I think I did it on my first build...can't remember back that far)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:18 am 
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Location: Coldwater Michigan
I somehow missed this post originally but now would like to add my opinion not supported by any facts. I don't know if I will be hit with tax when I complete my build but I suspect I will or something similar. Taxes of all kinds or part of our everyday life and we all complain when we have to pay and also forget that most taxes are beneficial to state operation and we do get the benefits in return except that a lot is lost in the beaurocracy. It is not against the law to purchase something without paying tax if it is not due, like internet sales, unless the transaction is ilegal to begin with although some states require sales tax on all purchases no matter how they are made. I will add the following to show that some times people win against the state tax collectors. In this region, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, hard liquor was always cheaper in Indiana because of tax and Ohio and Michigan had laws against purchases outside the state to evade taxes. If you were caught with Indiana booze you faced fines and forfeiture and the laws prevailed for a long time. This very event happened to an Ohioan who just happened to be a law student. He sued the state of Ohio in federal court claiming that the laws forbidding purchase of alcohol outside the state were were a violation of the federal law pertaining to interstate commerce and restraint of trade, and he won. Now we can buy all the cheap Indiana booze we want without fearing the tax man.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:11 pm 
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Location: Great South Bay, Long Island, NY. Building a Zip/Flying Saucer
I would show them all ten of my middle fingers and tell them to "Bring It". We 'll see who looks like a jerk when the dust settles.

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