what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

What kind, options, etc.

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Brian
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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby Brian » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:06 pm

Roberta, I'm getting ready to order my Raptor stuff and wondering how you're doing with it. Further thoughts on staple length? What Raptor stapler are you using?

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Roberta
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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby Roberta » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:05 pm

I'll probably start planking next week. I have the 3/8" staples for attaching the 3mm planks to the framing, then I'll use 1/4" for subsequent layers of 3mm. I also purchased 9/16" for attaching the 6mm plywood in the aft section of the bottom. I wasn't real sure about 1/4" for the first layer on the framing adequately holding so I bought the 3/8" for that. But the 1/4" should be fine for the 3mm over the planked frame. More adhesion there . The aft portion will be planked with full 6 mm sheets, so the 9/16" should be good for that. I will be planking to 5/8" on the bottom and 3/8 on the sides and transom with doublers in the exhaust area on the transom.

I have the Omer 81P stapler

Roberta :D
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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby cusoak » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:33 am

Are the staples that you are using are the plastic or metal. Not used one yet. Are you shooting the staple in to the plywood along with using epoxy to hold wood in place. Do the staples penetrate the plywood and does the gun driver make an indent into the wood.
Any pictures of a staple in wood.
What gauge are the staples.
I know nothing about these guns.
Jeff

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Roberta
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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby Roberta » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:56 am

The Raptor staples are 19 gauge plastic. The staples are not structural and they are used with epoxy. They are a temporary fastener while epoxy cures. They will dent the wood if driven at too high air pressure. The legs penetrate the wood just fine and the joint is held by the head of the staple. The staple heads are easily sanded or knocked off with a chisel. The legs stay embedded in the wood and are No pics yet.

Here is a link describing them better.

http://www.boatdesigns.com/Raptorreg-Fa ... ducts/926/

Roberta :D
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

Brian
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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby Brian » Tue May 06, 2014 12:36 am

OK, got my Raptor stapler and have been practicing putting a 9/16" staple through 1/4" ply into the Spruce my battens are made of. Having a little trouble with the staples disintegrating. I tried varying the air pressure, but my success rate is about 50% with either 60 or 90 psi. Anyone else have this problem? Do you just rest the head agains the wood, press it down a bit, or press it down a lot?

When they go through, they really hold!

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Roberta
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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby Roberta » Tue May 06, 2014 4:37 am

You need to press down hard and hold the gun straight and flat or the staples will not penetrate properly.

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Brian
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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby Brian » Tue May 06, 2014 10:47 am

OK, I guess it's a technique thing. I will keep practicing!
Thanks.

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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby Brian » Thu May 15, 2014 7:55 pm

Got it. They need to put a rubber pad on the head so you can push down harder. Even so, I still get many of them breaking. Maybe the 9/16" break easier? Using 80 psi.

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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby Brian » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:17 pm

OK, after a few weeks of working with the Raptor and 9/16" staples to help secure the first ply layer, I'm frustrated. I get jammed staples all the time. Sometimes several in a row, and I never get more than 5 in before it jams. When it does that, bits of staple become wedged in the tip and it won't move. Sometimes I can back off the staple feed and hit the trigger a few times to clear it, but mostly I have to take the air hose off and use a screwdriver to clean it out and push the tip back into the cocked position. obviously, when you have wet epoxy down and are pressing a piece of 1/4" ply onto a batten with one hand, this is pretty inconvenient.

I have tried different pressing techniques, from almost no pressure to as hard as I can press. And I've tried air pressures through the whole range. Same result. I'm going through 1/4" ply into Spruce. Anyone have an similar experiences with the Raptor or any words of wisdom?

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Roberta
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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby Roberta » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:27 am

That is strange!! I have had a few misfires, but generally can get 10-15 clips of staples in without a problem. What stapler are you using? Have you disassembled the nose of the stapler to remove any debris or glue that works it's way up into the mechanism? Are you lubricating the stapler?

I have the Omer 81P. I clean it and disassemble the magazine and the nose of the stapler after every session and lubricate it with the oil that was sent with it. Tiny bits of the staples will flake off and will jamb the sliding hammer and the magazine if not cleaned off regularly. Make sure the parts are going back in in the correct orientation when re-assembling. It is easy to get that little plate by the sliding hammer (81P) in wrong if not careful. Make sure the spring for the magazine slide is working properly.

Roberta :?:
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Brian
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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby Brian » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:13 pm

This has been going on since the first staple. It's not a debris or glue problem. Same stapler, all provided via Glen-L. I've written to Gayle and asked her to forward my comments to Raptor, but I haven't heard back from her yet.

I have not disassembled it at all, and am certain there is no debris in it. Are you using 9/16"? I tried 3/8", just as a test, and pretty much the same result. As I said before, I've tried various air pressures. Something may be wrong with the stapler, but I hate to send it back, since it will stop my progress.

I haven't found the holding power to be that good, even when they do go in right. If you push down with the stapler to get good contact, either the staple disintegrates or it goes in but doesn't keep the piece down. I've clamped and then stapled, but that's kind of pointless (still can't take the clamp off). So, in planking my first layer, I can really only do 2 at a time, one on each side, since the clamps are in the way. Thank God for the places where I can use ring nails, because some places are un-clampable! The T-88 epoxy takes several hours to harden, so 4 planks a day is pretty much the limit.

Really need to get this staple thing resolved before I get to the Sapele! Thanks for your suggestions, Roberta.

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Roberta
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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby Roberta » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:57 am

What plywood are you using and what thickness? Also, if the bend is more severe, try using narrower planks. I have used all three length staples in the 3mm and 6mm planks. 3/8" for 3mm to framing, 1/4" for 3mm to flatter plank on plank, 3/8" for 3mm plank on plank that was more curved and after the 2nd layer, and 9/16" for any 6mm plywood planking. I used Okoume plywood on Sapelle framing. Only occasionally did I have a staple disintegrate, maybe one or two per clip. My spacing was 3-4 across the plank (depending on width) on framing and about a staple every 2-3 inches on plank on plank, more if the plank is bent. I started in the middle of the plank and worked my way out to the edges and up and down the plank to smooth the plank out to eliminate any voids. The joint must be solid to avoid any bounce in the material. Good, solid contact must be made to avoid the material bouncing and causing the staple to explode. Voids between the material being joined will cause the staple to malfunction. The staples will not pull the materials together, but rather, hold them in place. It is not a secure or structural bond.

Roberta :?:
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russell
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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby russell » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:08 am

I am building a 24' Outer Banks by B&B Yacht Designs. I purchased the 81p Raptor gun and staples. I am using both 3/8 and 9/16 staples. I too have experienced problems (mainly with 9/16 staples attaching 4mm ply to stringers) My stingers are made with spruce. I sent the gun to Raptor in Tx. for repair, they said the white stuff on the nose was epoxy.( explained to them that it wasn't epoxy but was melted staple stuck in the nose.) They sent the gun back to me, (no charge, thanks) I tried again to use the 9/16 staple and gun again jammed after 6 or 7 staples. I am pretty sure the problem is caused by the staple not stong enough to penetrate the stringer and melts in the nose piece of the gun. No amount of oil will solve this issue. (in my opinion).I have again called Raptor but have not heard back. The gun is great at holding the layers of ply together but considering the up front cost of the gun, I am very disapointed with the quality.

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Gayle Brantuk
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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby Gayle Brantuk » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:25 am

Brian, I don't have any emails from you. It would be quicker for you if you contact Raptor directly though. I'll email them the link to this thread also...

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Re: what length raptor fastener for plywood hull and siding

Postby RAPTORnails&staples » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:27 am

Brian - the e mail that Gayle sent to RAPTOR ended up in my office. I believe I have talked to you before as per this information sounding familiar. I am the VP of Sales for RAPTOR and I would be glad to assist you in correcting this issue as it certainly sounds abnormal. The other individual that you have been communicating with on this forum has certainly given excellent instructions but the fact that you are still having issues tells me that the issue could be something out of your control.

Please feel free to contact me directly so that we can work to bring about resolution to the problems you are experiencing. Feel free to contact me at 512-255-8525. My name is Kyle.


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