Frame Gaskets

What kind, options, etc.

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theGreek
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Frame Gaskets

Postby theGreek » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:33 am

Hello All,

I have a question concerning the frame gaskets. I am building the Malahini boat. Do I apply 5 nails on each member on BOTH sides or just the one side? i.e. if 5 nails on each member, there will be a total of 10 nails in total on each side. Should there be 10 or 20 on each side? Also the 5 (if in fact it is 5) nails on each member do they have to be on one side only ? or can they be split on the two opposite facing gaskets ?
This might be a bit confusing I know.

The simple version. How many nails should I use in total for each frame (minimum) ?



Regards

Konstantinos

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mrintense
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Re: Frame Gaskets

Postby mrintense » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:56 am

I think you mean frame gussets. Assuming that is the case, I think you will be using 5 nails per gusset on each frame member. So on the port side of the frame there will be 10 nails per side (5 going into each frame member) for a total of 10 per side. There will be 20 (assuming two gussets are installed on the port side) and 20 more nails on the starboard side.

On my boat, the nails were not long enough to go through both gussets on the same side, however they long enough to stick through one gusset and the frame material, so I had to grind them down before installing the second gusset.

Here is an example. This is the frame with only one of the gussets installed. You can see the nails sticking through. These were ground down before gluing the second gusset on this this side. There are 6 nails going through each frame member for a total of 12 on the backside and 12 more on this side for a total of 24. That is just for this gusset. The other gusset on the opposite end of the frame had a similar amount. Hope this is a clear enough explanation. Was confusing enough to write. :)

20130421_084941.jpg
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

theGreek
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Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:10 am

Re: Frame Gaskets

Postby theGreek » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:28 am

Yes I mean gussets (sorry).
Thank you for the thorough explanation. I got it now. So I will add 10 nails on each gusset with a total of 20 on each side! :D
Sad news are that they are pretty hard to nail down!


Thanks again

Konstantinos

slug
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Re: Frame Gaskets

Postby slug » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:35 am

Possibly dry fit and clamp them first with a couple temporary screws to hold them, then take apart, glue and re-assemble with the temporary screws while you put the permanent nails in. Sometimes a small drill hole for each nail will help.

Doug

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Roberta
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Re: Frame Gaskets

Postby Roberta » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:07 am

When I built my frames I traced the pattern on my layout table. The frame members were nailed down to the table and the gussets glued and nailed over the frame members. Excess gusset was trimmed off after the glue cured. Here is a link that explains better. Scroll down a bit to see the frame on the table.

Roberta :D

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25179&start=45
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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tsmitherman
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Re: Frame Gaskets

Postby tsmitherman » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:51 am

I had trouble keeping things aligned when nailing the gussets on, too. My solution was to screw small scrap blocking on the assembly table to hold the frame members in place, then I used a air powered brad nailer to pin the gussets to the frames. (I glued them with epoxy and they were impossible to keep straight without pinning them first.)

If you are using silicon-bronze nails, they go in much easier if you pre-drill for them, although it is a time consuming process.
Tom
------------------------------
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Blog: www.genesisboat.blogspot.com


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mrintense
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Re: Frame Gaskets

Postby mrintense » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:37 am

I predrilled two holes (one at a time) and partially drove a nail in to hold the gusset in place. Then I predrilled the remaining holes, drove the nails (including the two original nails). If you are careful with the first two nails, then the gusset won't move. But using a brad gun or temporary screws might be safer.

Just be aware that there will be a lot of squeeze out, assuming you apply sufficient epoxy. I pre-wet my parts with unthinned epoxy, then applied thickened epoxy before putting the parts together. The gussets wanted to slide around a lot. Best to practice on scrap at least once to get a feel for the process.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

theGreek
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Re: Frame Gaskets

Postby theGreek » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:59 am

Hi all,

I had the gussets glued first with epoxy and then nailed so that they wont move while nailing. I did buy the annular ring bronzed nails from glen-l and they are a pain to nail. I will try drilling first though and I think it will be much easier then.

The reason I was asking is because the gussets seem to cover a small area on the frame and thus adding 20 nails (min) would weaken the wood... just a thought

Does anybody know if it is a good practice to glue the floor timber and the transom to their frames? In the instructions it does not mention anything like that.

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Roberta
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Re: Frame Gaskets

Postby Roberta » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:16 am

You should always predrill the holes for nails and screws. It's better to use the nails or screws while the epoxy is uncured to avoid fracturing the joint. The epoxy will help hold the fasteners as they are driven through the uncured epoxy. You need to somehow stabilize the components while they are being assembled. Several methods have been conveyed in this thread. Yes, you should use epoxy and the screws or nails called out in the fastener schedule included with the plans and instructions. It's always a good idea to thoroughly read instructions and look over the plans and patterns and understand them prior to starting construction and be able to look ahead to see how things interact. Look at the build blogs of other similar boats being constructed to get ideas on how things are done and approached.

Roberta :D
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".


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