Good dark stain for mahogany?

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lstyles
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Good dark stain for mahogany?

Post by lstyles » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:37 pm

Okay so I am back working on my boat (malahini) and I am going to need a dark dye/stain for my covering boards. I am going to leave the planking natural and cover with clear coat and 2 part LPU. I want the kingplank and covering boards to be dark wood like the old boats. Any suggestions? I have read that water based stains are the way to go to ensure compatability with the epoxy that will go over it. Is water based Min wax ok?
thanks,
Lawry
Lawry (short for Lawrence)

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Dave Grason
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Post by Dave Grason » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:14 pm

THERE YOU ARE! We've been missing you! Any photos that we need to see?

Be very careful what stain you choose. That's because as you varnish over later, the varnish will have a honey colored tint to it that will have a yellowing effect. If you go with the wrong stain, your covering boards will take on a greenish tint because of the mix of the stain and the yellowing varnish. I have not had any experience with Minwax water based. I've also read that water based stains are the way to go UNDER epoxy. But if you can go with oil-based as well IF you jitterbug the stain with about a 220 grit and tack it off before applying the epoxy.

What wood are you using? Take a look at Interlux stains. Their stains are also filling, which should cut down on the amount of varnish. BTW, for my Zip, I'm actually considering NOT using epoxy for the deck but only going with stain/varnish. But that's me.

Anywho, the Interlux stains will need to be thinned to the consistancy of thick house paint with their #333 brushing liquid. AND, you probably should have a helper - one person to rub the stain in while the other person wipes it off. You want it wiped off before it dries.

If you're going for the light/dark look, make sure to do a very good job masking off areas that you don't want the stain. Use Scotch #218 Fine-line tape. This stuff will prevent any capillary action bleed through or seeping under the edge. It does have a very aggressive adhesive so don't leave it on for too long.
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

RoyH
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Post by RoyH » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:52 am

Check out http://www.wdlockwood.com

I ordered test-samples of there waterstain. If you order five different colors they don't charge freight (important for me in Norway :wink: )
I have stained my Squirt using only the test-samples, and I still have more left.

Since I wanted a red mahogny-look I ordered different red tones. On a piece of scrap plywood I tested all the colors, and put on some cloth and epoxy. The color changed much with the epoxy on, so you have to run the hole process on the testpiece before you deside.
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BruceDow
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Post by BruceDow » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:59 am

Hi Lori.

Good to hear from you again.

If you are planning to stain, then epoxy... I'm sure I don't need to remind you about the risk of the dreaded "sand-through".

Your epoxy provider may have test data on how their product works with Stain, and what types of stain are best. (I used West System, and they have published their test results on their site)

please be careful.
Bruce.

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~~ To me - only my boat is not yet perfect. Everybody else's is to be admired for I know the path they have walked (Dave Lott, 2010) ~~
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lstyles
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Post by lstyles » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:45 pm

Hi Bruce,
I am afraid that I dont know what the dreaded "sand through" is. Please explain...it sounds bad. I was thinking that the system three clear coat would have negligible effect on the stain and that the clear LPU would not change things either. Am I wrong? Of course I plan to test the colors before application so could check things out that way.
thanks
Lawry (short for Lawrence)

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BruceDow
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Post by BruceDow » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:53 pm

Well... it may be just my lack of epoxy and sanding skill but...

I stained my hull below the sheers. I regret doing that.

As I was sanding there were times when I sanded through the epoxy and down to the wood. That took away a spot of the stain. Touch-up was very tricky, and imperfect.

I did not stain my deck or coverboards, but there WERE times when I sanded through the epoxy. If I HAD stained, there would have been the same problem.

Epoxy repairs on natural wood are invisible. Touching up stain through a hole in your epoxy... not so much.
Bruce.

~~ Do what you love, and love what you do. ~~
~~ To me - only my boat is not yet perfect. Everybody else's is to be admired for I know the path they have walked (Dave Lott, 2010) ~~
Dow's Monaco Project

lstyles
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Post by lstyles » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:09 pm

That is a good point! I am only going to stain the covering boards and king plank and will be putting several coats of clear coat epoxy but this stuff is pretty thin so it would be possible to go through it. I will be careful on that part. If I do a good job before staining then I hopefully will have little sanding to do after putting on the clear coat. I can use the LPU layer to get it real smooth (its much tougher than the epoxy).
Let you know how it goes,
Lawry (short for Lawrence)

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BruceDow
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Post by BruceDow » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:06 am

On the deck, my underlying problem with the epoxy was "out gassing".

Because I epoxied at the wrong time of day (morning), I got bubbles in the epoxy that required a lot of sanding to smooth out.

If I had put that layer of Epoxy on the deck properly, I would not have had to sand so aggressively.
Bruce.

~~ Do what you love, and love what you do. ~~
~~ To me - only my boat is not yet perfect. Everybody else's is to be admired for I know the path they have walked (Dave Lott, 2010) ~~
Dow's Monaco Project

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Dave Grason
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Post by Dave Grason » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:40 am

Lori, Bruce is a lot more critical of his own work than the rest of us were. When I saw the boat at the Gathering this past October, I thought it really did look very good.
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

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BruceDow
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Post by BruceDow » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:24 pm

Thanks, Dave.

I am not disappointed with the final result. But... "If I knew then, what I know now" I would do things differently. Next time, I will be able to avoid many of the countless hours I spent fixing my screw-ups on this build.

(heck... I sanded my transom down to bare wood at least three times because I wasn't happy with it ... the first time was through a full layer of fiberglass cloth and epoxy over stain. I omitted the stain and cloth on subsequent attempts.)

Staining is just one of those things that can add future risk and reduce future flexibility.

I got my finishing board contrast by using different wood.
Bruce.

~~ Do what you love, and love what you do. ~~
~~ To me - only my boat is not yet perfect. Everybody else's is to be admired for I know the path they have walked (Dave Lott, 2010) ~~
Dow's Monaco Project

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billy c
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Post by billy c » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:20 pm

Bruce is right on mark with the oil based stain. Difficult to repair the epoxy coat and oil together in harmony without showing the repair. On the flip side.... uv water base dyes or those that can be mixed with other solvents like Behlen's Solarlux can be touched up, because you can spray/brush and feather the area even overlapping onto the good lightly sanded epoxy surface. Having a batch of the blend you used on the hull to get perfect results.
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Butch Barto
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Post by Butch Barto » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:08 pm

I used Minwax oil stain on the dark areas on INNOCENCE Sanded before staining then waited about a week before appling epoxy Iput on 6 or 7 coats of epoxy then started sanding then 14 coats of clear

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