19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

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ejr
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

Post by ejr »

Jim

I reviewed your build thread a couple weeks ago. But, I got distracted by how nice your build looks and forgot to look at how you actually put it together. I am sure I will be referring to your threat more and more once I get the boat flipped.

Matt,

Thank you. I appreciate the kind words. The iPhone cameras are very forgiving. Every time I go out to work on the boat, I see something new that needs fixed. Right now I’m fighting the angle of the sheer clamp aft of the rear cockpit. Fortunately, wood is easy to fix.
Building a 19 foot Barrelback in Oklahoma
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mickfly
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

Post by mickfly »

I think Jim's comment about sealing the planks on the inside, before applying, is important. I did not do that and probably took more time and used more epoxy to coat while climbing around inside the boat. At this point, I've climbed over the side of the boat so many times, I now make a list of what I need to reduce unneeded trips.

I used 5/16 sapele for my ceiling planks, using a narrow kerf blade to "resaw" them to ~6 widths (a lot of work as multiple passes were required, but my bandsaw was not up to the task).
It's a pain to get the planks fitted into place without a partner to assist, but I struggled through.

Mick

TomB
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

Post by TomB »

ejr wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:33 pm
Tom,

Thanks. I read your build thread from start to finish. Your boat is looking amazing, and I excited to see the finished project. The dash and transom look incredible.

I believe your comment regarding the 3/4" floor is what made my mind up there. I had not thought about the flex in the bench seat. That is a good point. And, if there is too much flex, it should not be hard to add some additional support.

I will be using planks for the ceilings much like the original barrelbacks. I had originally considered solid lumber. But, I'm wondering if a veneered plywood would be better, as it would be more stable. I have a long way to go before I get to the interior, but it seems like it make sense to make this decision now and include the additional material in my order if I'm going to use plywood for the interior.

I believe I also saw a comment on your thread about Van Dam boats using yellow cedar for the first layer of planking on their boats. I have also admired their work since I saw the American Craftsman episode they were featured in. This sent me on a wild goose chase trying to find yellow cedar locally. I liked the idea of the rot resistance provided by the cedar. No luck, I am back to plywood for the first couple layers.
Thanks for the kind words.

Sorry for sending you looking for wild geese. Van Dam only uses the best materials. Yellow cedar is beautiful, hard to find, and too expensive when you find it. ($15/BF from my Michigan source when they have it). Using it and then covering it up with ceilings would be a crime.

While you are thinking about flooring, how will you support it? I wish I had added something along the hull before planking. I also wish I had added backing for the guards before planking. Just a thought.

Tom
In the home stretch on a Tahoe 23

ejr
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

Post by ejr »

No worries about the goose chase. It is all part of the experience. I am sure that there will be many more before I finish this build, like how to get a hold of banjo steering wheel without mortgaging the house!

I have not even considered mounting the floor. Like much of my build, I had assumed that things would work out in the end. Your point is well taken though. It probably would be easier to build a shelf into assembly now rather than later. Thanks for passing along the suggestion. I will definitely take a look at it.
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Jimbob
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

Post by Jimbob »

After your discussion on supporting the floor, I thought you might be interested in how I did it. The attached picture shows some of the support items for my floor. I used the top of the motor stringers as the reference point to where the floor would sit. I made assemblies that "sandwiched" around the frames to support the flooring in alignment with the motor stringers. I left gaps for cable runs at the end of each assembly. I used a straight edge to mark the hull where the epoxied blocks would go to support the outer edge of the flooring. Instead of using large pieces of flooring, my floor is in many sections for easy access if I need it. It's real easy to fit the smaller sections. Vinyl flooring covers the plywood floor so that the seams and all the screws are hidden. You can also see where I attached wood to the frames so that my ceilings would be straight up, and not curved with the frames.
Jim
Attachments
20170730_143612.jpg
Jim Neeley
Building a Barrelback in Sacramento, CA
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ejr
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

Post by ejr »

Please don’t shoot me if this has been asked and answered already. Could one use wester red cedar planks instead of ply for the inner layers of the hull?

Wester Red Cedar is relatively available around here (I have not priced), has great rot resistance and a pretty light.

I have done a bit of research and have seen a number of webpages discussing its use in cold molded boats, but I did not see anything on the forum that really answered the question. I did see one post from 2011 suggesting Van Dam boats may have used it for inner layers on its hills. And, there is a number of discussions regarding its use in canoes and kayaks.
Building a 19 foot Barrelback in Oklahoma
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ejr
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

Post by ejr »

Jim,

Thanks for the explanation. I saw those bridges n your build thread and was trying to figure out what they were.

On a completely different topic, I think I have decided on the color scheme i will be using. Rather than the traditional white seams, I am very seriously considering the Orange seams and boot stripe with pig skin interior. I gather this color combo was only available for a couple years. But , man is it pretty.

Also, I trying to figure out budget for the deck hardware. I noticed that you used 4 of the v shaped vents on your build. A number of the pictures for the 39, 40 that I have seen have just two vents and they are the best claw design. Do you know when the change to 4 vents and the style you used happened?
Building a 19 foot Barrelback in Oklahoma
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Jimbob
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

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If you go to california classic boats .com they have drawings for hardware for the boats that they came on. Al, at california classic boats tells me that lots of boats that you see have the incorrect hardware for the model and year of the boat. I went with 4 because I wanted plenty of ventilation. I have read that a lot of the Canadian boats had a yellow or orange tint on the caulking. If you use white caulk, and put lots of coats of varnish over it, it will take on a yellow tint. Mine did that so I painted the caulk lines with white paint to bring back the white caulk lines.
Jim
Jim Neeley
Building a Barrelback in Sacramento, CA
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mickfly
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

Post by mickfly »

Regarding your idea to use western red cedar for the first layer of planking. There is one potential upside...it will be prettier than plywood on the inside of the boat, but will be covered so no one will see it.

Potential downsides...Cost or time required to resaw cedar to 1/8 thickness...possibility of splitting or cracking due to the large number of staples required to get solid wood to lay flat against battens, etc. The multiple layers in plywood allow it to take the bends without splitting, especially when a staple is needed near and end or edge. Of course, your final layer is solid wood, but that goes on longitudinally, after you've created a nice, smooth landing spot.

If I've learned anything during this and other boat builds it's that there are several ways to do things "right." Also, fortunately, wood is forgiving which allows for recovery if you don't do it right. As an example, I decided to glass my hull, but something about the sealer/stain process I used resulted in the glass/epoxy peeling away when I started work near the sheer. There were also several spots where the glass "showed" in the otherwise clear finish. Now all glass above the water line is gone!

Mick

ejr
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

Post by ejr »

Mick,

Thanks for the thoughts. I have done some additional research. In Glen's "Boatbuilding with Plywood", some additional information/comparison Okoume vs Red Cedar from Glen's book:
Okoume (Gaboon)
27 lbs. per cubic foot,
2.08 lbs. per board foot.

This West African wood produces large, clear logs of uniform straight grain. The heartwood is salmon pink or pale pinkish brown resembling some types of Philippine mahogany. The sapwood is grayish. It is only fairly strong considering other woods, but strong for its weight, although low in resistance to decay. The wood splinters easily and is best sawn with carbide tipped blades. It has little use in plywood boatbuilding except in smaller boats where lightweight is more important than durability. Some imported plywood is made from this wood.

Cedar, Western Red
23 lbs. per cubic foot,
1.92 lbs per board foot.

Grown in the Pacific Northwest, the wood has narrow white sapwood and reddish-brown heartwood. It is rather soft and weak, shrinks very little, and the heartwood has good resistance to decay. The grain is uniform and straight although somewhat coarse and brittle. While often used for conventional planking, it is not highly recommended for this use. However, for veneers for use in cold molded hull planking, the material is excellent.
My thoughts were to use the Western Red Cedar for all of the interior planking layers (1-3 on the bottom and 1-2 on the sides), and African Mahogany or Sapele for the outer veneer. In addition to looking pretty (which was on the lower end of my concerns), my thought was that the Red Cedar is extremely light (lighter than Okoume), rot resistant, and accepts glues and epoxies well. Additionally, because I am working on a very limited monthly budget, I could make small material purchase each month and keep moving forward with the build. As far as time, although my time is limited, I have more time than disposable cash at the moment. So, I think the cost of shipping the ply vs the time resawing balance each other out.

However, as you and Glen point out it is brittle (soft and weak). In the end, while I liked the idea of WCR because it keeps me moving forward, I am not really interested in experimenting with the project. I think I am going to wait and purchase the plywood, as it is a tried an true product at this point.
Building a 19 foot Barrelback in Oklahoma
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ejr
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

Post by ejr »

Jimbob wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:55 pm
If you go to california classic boats .com they have drawings for hardware for the boats that they came on. Al, at california classic boats tells me that lots of boats that you see have the incorrect hardware for the model and year of the boat. I went with 4 because I wanted plenty of ventilation. I have read that a lot of the Canadian boats had a yellow or orange tint on the caulking. If you use white caulk, and put lots of coats of varnish over it, it will take on a yellow tint. Mine did that so I painted the caulk lines with white paint to bring back the white caulk lines.
Jim
Thanks as always for your knowledge. I have read about the yellow/orange tint to Canadian boats, but I believe are something different altogether. Here are some images of a 1940 19' that was recently restored by Katz Marina.
1940--19_-Chris-Craft-Barrelback-Runabout--PIX-15-900.jpg
1940--19_-Chris-Craft-Barrelback-Runabout--PIX-11-900.jpg
1940--19_-Chris-Craft-Barrelback-Runabout--PIX-8-900.jpg
You can also see the pigskin interior color that I have my eye on.

Of course, I have a long way to go before I get to the deck seams, and I am sure that my mind will change multiple times before I get to that point.
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Jimbob
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

Post by Jimbob »

Nice boat! The rear flag holder was open at the base for additional venting. The yellow tint on this boat was probably the varnish over white I was talking about. I got my reproduction steering wheel like the one here from California classic boats. The Bugatti windshields on this boat were just too expensive.
Jim
Jim Neeley
Building a Barrelback in Sacramento, CA
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ejr
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Re: 19ft Barrelback Oklahoma

Post by ejr »

I'm with you on those folding windows $8k for the set!

I have located a source for the pigskin interior. It is custom order, so it is pricey ($150/yard vinyl or $750/hide leather), but what is cheap on these boats!

Here is another unique boat. Apparently, Chris Craft made one 1940 with the Sportsman Windows. Just goes to show you, they assembled the boats with whatever they had lying around:

http://www.antiqueboatsales.com/1940Chr ... 9Foot.html

And, here is an article in Woodyboater, discussing the Katz restoration shown in my prior pictures
https://www.woodyboater.com/blog/2019/0 ... eam-color/

I had not noticed the vents in the flag pole. I'm torn between the cleaner deck (two vents) and the extra bling (four vents) like you have. I also really like the seam down the coverboards.
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