Biscayne V Riviera

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Jasbel
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:51 pm

Biscayne V Riviera

Postby Jasbel » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:07 am

Greetings

I was just looking through the customer's photo;s and came across Bob Perkins 22ft
Biscayne stretched to 23ft, That's one of the prettist boats I have ever seen


I was Just wondering what was the difference between the Biscayne and the Rivera
regards to the Hull design, acception of the Biscayne been 22ft ???

Which boat manoeuvres the best and which hull handles the chop rough water

Can the Biscayne be used as a ski boat???

Cheers Darren

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DaveLott
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Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby DaveLott » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:46 am

Jasbel - As an owner of a Riviera, I will tell you the main difference between the two

The Biscayne if much bigger: in length, depth and width.

I stretched my Riviera to almost 21'. But is 6-8" shallower in the hull than the Biscayne.

The best way I have described the really big mahoganies as compared to the Riviera/ Monaco group is to compare a sports car to the family sedan.

That was the comment I made before I made adjustments to my Riviera approach attitude (bow position on the water).

These big boats on the water at the correct attitude( being as level with the water as the speed will allow without the bow digging in) will absolutely amaze you with the ride. They are solid and smooth.
I found that if the boat is not trimmed properly the boat will give a rough ride in chop and may porpoise or bow steer. The attitude is critical to the ride.

For example, 2 weeks ago, I was out on our lake, running near WOT for 30 minutes in water running 12"- 18" or better. i had just made an adjustment to the attitude using temporary trim tabs. I had only one occasion where I heard the floor boats "go bump" (across a big cruiser wake). Prior to this, the ride would have been not have been as fast nor as smooth. In deeper seas the Riviera should only be driven at much slower speeds with the bow up otherwise, you WILL get wet and beat to death. I would trust the Biscayne or similar with that function.

Just my opinion, the ride seems to be also an affect of the length to the boats being able to span several crests. I can usually find a speed that irons the lake out.

Regarding maneuverability. Well, all I can say are that these are inboards and big. They do not perform like an outboard or i/o. They require room and it takes some practice to learn how each boats handles.

So now with all my rambling, you have gotten nowhere.

Perhaps you can give us an idea where you want to use your boat the most and what type of seas do you normally experience.
Dave

Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project
Glen-L Sea Kayak
Mahalo Standup Paddleboard

Video of Midnight in Action

Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.

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DaveLott
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Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby DaveLott » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:50 am

One more disclaimer - not everyone likes to ride their boats at the speed I like to cruise. :shock: Love the thrill and look on people's faces. :lol:
Dave

Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project
Glen-L Sea Kayak
Mahalo Standup Paddleboard

Video of Midnight in Action

Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.

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kens
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Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby kens » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:09 am

The Riviera & Monaco are better suited for bigger horsepower and speeds. These have newer contemporary running lines.
The Biscayne and other KenH designs retain the pre-war classic lines and as such they are better suited for moderate power and speeds.

Any of the inboards can pull a skier though.
Oak is over rated, everything about it takes extra time; then it warps, splits or checks !!! :roll:

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DaveLott
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Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby DaveLott » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:09 am

kens wrote:

Any of the inboards can pull a skier though.


without question
Dave

Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project
Glen-L Sea Kayak
Mahalo Standup Paddleboard

Video of Midnight in Action

Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.

Jasbel
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:51 pm

Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby Jasbel » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:20 pm

Greetings

Sorry for all the questions, just looking to get an education about the variety of different boats hulls and what applications there are been used for

Can the Biscayne or Maybe the Belle Isle23 be used as a family ski boat with the older contemporary running lines.

Cheers

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DaveLott
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Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby DaveLott » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:13 pm

Yes,

Consider how your people will get in and out of the boat. Also consider the pylon you will use. Some consider it a sacrelege to put a ski pylon on a woodie. I say "get over it"

Here is the pylon I installed

S1020001.JPG


S1020002.JPG
Dave

Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project
Glen-L Sea Kayak
Mahalo Standup Paddleboard

Video of Midnight in Action

Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.

Trackhappy
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Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia. Building Gentry.

Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby Trackhappy » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:34 pm

What strengthening do you have to add for a pylon like that? I am considering allowing for one in my Gentry build, at least adding strength so it can be added later anyway.
By the time I have built a boat, I'll be ready to build a boat....

Jasbel
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:51 pm

Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby Jasbel » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:47 pm

Greetings Dave


I must also say the Midnight Cry is a fantastic looking Boat Dave. Ive Looked at all your photo's and clips and think to myself could I build a boat as half as good as yours I will be happy, You and the other member here on this forum are an example of inspiration for many newbie's to come including myself "THANKYOU"

Im in the process of having someone do my frames for me as we speak, as from my other post's I would like to extend to 24ft, reason been Im superstitious about numbers

But I will have to settle for 23ft not knowing the unknown if I extend to 24ft

Thanks to you Dave and other members here for all your Help

Oh yes I live here on the Sunshine Coast here in Queensland Australia in a coastal town called Caloundra we have some very nice rivers here as well.

Cheers All, And thanks again

Darren

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DaveLott
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Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby DaveLott » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:07 pm

Trackhappy wrote:What strengthening do you have to add for a pylon like that? I am considering allowing for one in my Gentry build, at least adding strength so it can be added later anyway.



Well, Track, I posted a rather long post to this and it dissappeared so let's try a shorter version

There are 2 white oak vertical frame members bolted between a deck member and the motor stringers. This deck frame is the at the edge of the cockpit. These two vertical members also serve as the seat back supports

Between the 2 verticals, I bolted 4 layers of 3/4 plywood creating a solid 3" thick wall . The pylon tube is u-clamped to this wall under the deck as well as to the frame member. There is no way that pylon tube is moving.
Dave

Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project
Glen-L Sea Kayak
Mahalo Standup Paddleboard

Video of Midnight in Action

Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.

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DaveLott
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Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby DaveLott » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:10 pm

Darren - Do you know Trackhappy? By your description, it looks like you live in his neighborhood. Of course, anybody living "down under" are in the "same neighborhood" for us. Go figure :lol:
Dave

Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project
Glen-L Sea Kayak
Mahalo Standup Paddleboard

Video of Midnight in Action

Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.

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Aussie
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:31 pm
Location: Sarina Queensland Building 23ft Belle Isle

Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby Aussie » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:12 pm

Hi Jasbel,

Good to see a few more of us in Queensland...... i think we are up to around 6 builds in Queensland....
Have you gone with the Belle Isle? Cant remember if i read that you had or not...
I have also just started the Belle Isle and cant wait to see her go together...
I will be posting some pictures soon when i get a bit further along....
Track isnt too far away from you and it would proberly help to see a boat in person as when i was recently in Sydney i caught up with Tim Major and had a look at his Monaco build and it put a lot of things in perspective...
Anyway happy building

Jamie

Trackhappy
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:42 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia. Building Gentry.

Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby Trackhappy » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:31 pm

Jasbel wrote:Oh yes I live here on the Sunshine Coast here in Queensland Australia in a coastal town called Caloundra we have some very nice rivers here as well.Darren

What the!!! Invaders in my area :shock: :shock: I am in Ilkley currently, just behind Ettamogah Pub. Love to catch up but be quick the house is being auctioned in a few weeks and I am as yet unsure where we will be going. PM me and I will supply phone number. :D :D :D
By the time I have built a boat, I'll be ready to build a boat....

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Dave Grason
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Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby Dave Grason » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:32 pm

Aussie wrote:...it would proberly help to see a boat in person as when i was recently in Sydney i caught up with Tim Major and had a look at his Monaco build and it put a lot of things in perspective...


Seeing the boats in person is one of the most eye-opening experiences to have when building a boat. I know that this is the biggest reason that our Boatbuilder Gatherings have become so popular. And it's why they're getting bigger and better. At G4 we had an amazing variety of boats.

I wish you fellows down under could do the same. If you've got at least 6 builders in Queensland alone, you've got the start. You should really consider it.
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

khundley
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Re: Biscayne V Riviera

Postby khundley » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:26 pm

I am jealous of you guys building the Belle Isle. I would love to after seeing Billy's and some of the others here, but wuld have to build the whole thing on the driveway. I am still choosing between the Monaco alternative utility desogn and the Key Largo. The Key Largo has a more classic look, a more blunt nose, but I like the lines. I am guessing the monaco will run better at high speeds. I will be doing either at 18'....just fits in the garage that way. SO hard to choose! They're all beautiful designs!
Ken Hundley
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