Seattle Barrelback progress

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mrintense
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby mrintense » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:51 pm

When I was doing composite repair for United Airlines in the 90's, we used vacuum bagging for all our repairs and fabrications. With fiberglass, it typically was done how Bob and Robert have done it. With other composites we might add a heat blanket and thermo couples (for temperature control). For the very large fabrications, we would place the item in bags or on a thick aluminum table, vacuum them down to keep everything in place, and then place them into an autoclave for cooking at 250 or 350 degrees. The autoclave would be pressurized and the vacuum removed from the item (so that the pressure was doing all the work).

Some really sweet looking work came out of all of that. If things don't move unexpectedly during the curing process you can ask for a better layup process. What made it really cool was that we used sheets of epoxy (and other glues) which were keep on a roll in freezers until we needed them. The autoclave would set off the glues and cure them. No mess.

Another thing we always included was peel ply which insured that the surface of the laid up item was smooth enough to paint. The only sanding I ever did was to remove excess glue that squeezed out. I never had to sand the surfaces of autoclave cured items and items done under vacuum only rarely. Even that was usually only to knock off any slight roughness.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

Benj269
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby Benj269 » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:08 pm

Bob Perkins wrote:Picture it this way:

say you had a solid Formica counter top..
You placed a bunch of veneers on it and then took plastic sheeting, covered the veneers, taped it down around the edges and sucked out all the air.

Its not a bag around all sides... but it is air tight.

That is how this works - when I first figured it out for myself 10+ years ago... it took me a little to wrap my head around.
but it is super simple and is the best way to build a rock solid boat.


Thanks Bob. I am picturing two layers of thin plywood strips at 90 degrees to one another. Aren't there going to be places where two joints (one in the outer layer and one on the inner layer) meet and thus the potential for a pinhole (or larger) leak? I've never worked on a cold mold boat like this before and maybe my understanding is way off. The "bag", or actually a sheet of plastic, is taped to a section and the tape is sufficient to hold vacuum? There is also a "release layer" between the bag and wood so that any epoxy squeeze out doesn't stick to the bag? Or is this layer to ensure there aren't any trapped air pockets that don't get vacuumed?

RobertCugini
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby RobertCugini » Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:37 pm

First halve of bottom glassing, glassed the seams and keel prior with 6 inch tape.
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Bob Perkins
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby Bob Perkins » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:30 am

Glassing looks good! Keep up the good work!


On the bagging question: There are a few steps needed to get it all to work with plywood strips.
The first layer of the hull got an epoxy fairing coat to seal holes and make an airtight base.
Then when you laminate, the bagging consists of layers.

there is the base, glue, laminate. (which would normally be stapled)
Then you add peel ply (which is just 100% poly fabric - I used stuff from JoAnne Fabric. Costs less than Marine branded)
then breather fabric (I used thin quilt batting)
then the bag - I used poly sheeting.
All of this works - once you get the hang of it.
We can start up a separate thread if you want to know more.
It makes a rock hard boat using very little epoxy - but it costs more since bagging materials are consumed.
HTH
Regards,
Bob Perkins

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mrintense
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby mrintense » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:38 am

Looking good Robert. I hope to be at that point in a few months.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

RobertCugini
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby RobertCugini » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:09 pm

Second coat on the whole bottom.
Almost to sanding again!

RC
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RobertCugini
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby RobertCugini » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:46 am

Lot of sanding, washing, and coating to get a perfectly smooth surface. Found out wet sanding and washing with a bit of soap really help. On the home stretch on sanding, at least for now.
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billy c
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby billy c » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:39 am

Robert-
that came out real nice!
looks like you better get planning your boat turning party :D
-Billy
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

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mrintense
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby mrintense » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:26 am

Looking very very nice Robert. I know that you have been working on this for quite a while as well and I am sure you are anxious to get to the flipping point. Shouldn't be too much longer now.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Bob Perkins
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby Bob Perkins » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:34 am

Looks great!

I can't remember if I've said it here before..

I painted the bottom and the 'designed' water line while it was upside down.
The boat should sit in the water on that designed line for best performance.

If it doesn't - moving weight around to correct it is what would be needed (i.e. battery in front vs. back etc)

Plus the added bonus of not dealing with it later ;)
Thanks for keeping us up to date.
Regards,
Bob Perkins

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RobertCugini
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby RobertCugini » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:28 pm

Epoxy prime Bottom
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alycat
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby alycat » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:16 pm

Very nice, what type of bottom paint will you be using after the primer coat?

Looks awesome!
Will Manwaring
Shreveport, LA

Barrelback 19' stretched to 20'

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Bob Perkins
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby Bob Perkins » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:38 am

Hull rolling very soon!

Hard to tell in the picture, the bow looks round - will you be using a cutwater?
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Bob Perkins

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RobertCugini
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby RobertCugini » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:21 am

Yes, it is rounded.
The next one I build will not have this issue! Its caused me a bit of problems with the cutwater.
I had Mike the cutwater guy fabricate one, but the angles don't match.
Going to have to do some "Field Modifications". Luckily, I have done LOTS of
automotive body work and restoration before I started the boat, and have the skills to do this. I'm going to wrestle it into shape
and send it back to Mike for welding and polishing.

Did you ever see a picture of the runabout made by "Fairliner", its totally rounded.
http://www.woodenboatassociation.com/Bo ... arker.html

Robert

Cutwaterguy
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Re: Seattle Barrelback progress

Postby Cutwaterguy » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:14 am

RobertCugini wrote:Yes, it is rounded.
The next one I build will not have this issue! Its caused me a bit of problems with the cutwater.
I had Mike the cutwater guy fabricate one, but the angles don't match.
Going to have to do some "Field Modifications". Luckily, I have done LOTS of
automotive body work and restoration before I started the boat, and have the skills to do this. I'm going to wrestle it into shape
and send it back to Mike for welding and polishing.

Did you ever see a picture of the runabout made by "Fairliner", its totally rounded.
http://www.woodenboatassociation.com/Bo ... arker.html

Robert



Future builders...
In the end though, if your going to use a cutwater it would be best that the hull side planking planes off to a center point located along a knife edge this process would produce to the stem and stem foot from top to bottom. The c-water metal thickness does not easily lend itself to forming that tight of radius and would be really labor intensive. I have custom produced a similar radius profile to cutwaters before but I'll only do this at the top and bottom.

If your going to incorporate a rounded stem and foot like Robert has i would recommend using stem bead fastened to centerline along the vertical. Normally this is a 1/2 round metal like a rubrail.

I'm sure Robert and I will get something figured out, his project looks tobe a handsome craft.


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