Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

A forum for contacting other builders of Ken Hankinson designs. These designs are now a part of the Glen-L family.

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Konrad
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Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by Konrad »

Hi all. I'm just at the investigation stage of a classic runabout for use on Chesapeake Bay. I'm very partial to the Barrelback look, e.g. the Barrelback and Belle Isle plans, but also looking at the Tahoe, Monaco, and Riviera designs and have questions.

My biggest question in selecting a design is ride and handling in chop. I currently have a 17' FG runabout which can start to pound terribly in even modest chop and limiting speeds sometimes to less than 10kts.

What can anyone say about the relative merits/demerits of the various designs? Both of the Barrels seem pretty flat in the aft sections. Do you get a lot of pounding? Are any of these designs significantly better than the others in this respect? Do any of the designs incorporate adjustable trim tabs?

Thanks in advance for any replies and insights.

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vupilot
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by vupilot »

Welcome. Youve come to the right place. Plenty of helpful builders here.

Ive got family on the Severn and South rivers around Annapolis so know the water you are talking about pretty well. It can be flat calm during the work week mornings and have 3 ft chop and swells all weekend.

A deep vee will give you the most versatility in all conditions. The Roustabout is one of those designs that you can build with the classic look. In my opinion i would eliminate the Monaco, it sits pretty low. The Tahoe I think would serve you well too. You can really use any of these like you do your current boat but for a nicer ride on those busy days a deep vee hull will be best. Many can be built with the classic runabout look you desire.

Konrad
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by Konrad »

Thanks vup, your comments appreciated. I'm currently thinking of going with the longer hull like the tahoe 23. Don't know where I'd do the build tho. I'm currently building a rowing scull which is 22' long, but only about 18' wide and have to angle that to fit in the garage as it is. Might have to build an extension on the garage first LOL.

neel thompson
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by neel thompson »

I use my Gentry on the upper Chesapeake Bay four or five times each summer. I usually launch on the Sassafras River and make the run up to Chesapeake City for lunch. Then I head back to the Sassafras, pull the boat out and head home. It is about a 70 mile day on the bay. I have learned that if the wind is stronger than 10 kts., I get wet. I have been boating on the Chesapeake for forty plus years and I know it can get nasty very fast. So I would rule out the Gentry, Monaco, Riviera, and any other design with low freeboard. I know that it has been reported here on the forum that the Tahoe 23 or 24 performs well in heavy chop. Maybe Butch Barto will weigh in on this for you. Best of luck with whatever you decide to build.... Neel

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billy c
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by billy c »

Kon-
the Belle Isle can survive pretty tough water, but the classic runabout hulls really aren't the best for 3' swells or varying conditions where comfort of ride is your primary goal. They are great boats, lots of fun and work extremely well on sheltered waters all day long.
i love my Belle Isle. the long, sleek narrow hull with the triple cockpits makes you feel like you are in a sports car flying across the water.
Google for a look at the 28' Hackers and Rivas. The much greater freeboard, deep V and beam make them more seaworthy when going gets tough. ...as Vup pointed out, find a design here with similar specs, plank it and give it the hardware for the vintage look.
Then again, you could build a Barrelback ...most of us own more than one boat :lol:
-Billy
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

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Gayle Brantuk
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by Gayle Brantuk »

Another consideration would be the Bolero:
https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=200
Gayle Brantuk
Glen L Witt's daughter
Past Glen-L Marine President

dmac
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by dmac »

Check out Kona Kai for an interesting option. It has a deep-v hull, has been built as a runabout with stunning results (follow the photos), and also has the gorgeous arching sheerline that many builders of classic boats are looking for. With a little creativity and the right exterior finish, it could be made into a real beauty with an excellent rough water ride! Good luck with your choice and your build.

Konrad
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by Konrad »

Good comments all. Thanks. Have been pouring over build pictures for the various contenders. Right now I'm starting to lean towards the Monte Carlo. It combines the forward overhang I like with the barrel back that I like, and perhaps most important, *appears* to have more deadrise aft than Belle Isle, or Tahoe. (was for a time contemplating marrying the forward section of Tahoe with the stern of Belle Isle, and Monte Carlo seems to actually be that).

I do wish that the specs listed for the plans were more uniform in the info provided as I'm still somewhat concerned about seakeeping. Some list hull depth, some freeboard. None list deadrise, an important characteristic. Can anyone who has built them give deadrise and minimum (aft) freeboard for Belle Isle, Tahoe (23) and Monte Carlo?

I'm already enjoying this project :-)

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gap998
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by gap998 »

Something like this? :)
Tahoe-verniter SBF3_4.jpg
Tahoe-verniter SBR3_4.jpg
I've been working on this for my boat No.3 (I've not started No.1 yet! :lol: )
It's a 25' Tahoe with free-board increased, in my case to accommodate berths under the bow deck, rather that for sea keeping. I also love the rounded stern of the Barrel-backs & Tritones etc. so I've mod'ed that too. It'll be a colossal change though (hence boats 1 & 2 to learn on).

I don't see why you couldn't achieve the same look with a little less work on a Bolero for better sea-worthiness either. The Tahoe suits me better as I'm restricted on beam on the UK canal system.
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

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jamundsen
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by jamundsen »

Dead rise at transom for Monte Carlo is 3 1/2 inches over 31 inches
Dead use increased steadily going forward

Aft most freeboard is 22 inches
John Amundsen
Monte Carlo
Lakeland,Fl

Work tends to get in the way of boat building

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by Bill Edmundson »

The Tahoe 19 dead rise is 7 degrees each side, as I remember. That is fairly shallow. It does make a difference though.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

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kens
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by kens »

Konrad wrote:Hi all. I'm just at the investigation stage of a classic runabout for use on Chesapeake Bay. I'm very partial to the Barrelback look, e.g. the Barrelback and Belle Isle plans, but also looking at the Tahoe, Monaco, and Riviera designs and have questions.

My biggest question in selecting a design is ride and handling in chop. I currently have a 17' FG runabout which can start to pound terribly in even modest chop and limiting speeds sometimes to less than 10kts.

What can anyone say about the relative merits/demerits of the various designs? Both of the Barrels seem pretty flat in the aft sections. Do you get a lot of pounding? Are any of these designs significantly better than the others in this respect? Do any of the designs incorporate adjustable trim tabs?

Thanks in advance for any replies and insights.
I built an inboard and routinely run 20 miles offshore fishing, I'll add my 2 cents for what it is worth.
Any inboard is going to run differently than any outboard. You mentioned you like the 'look' of the tumblehome transom, but you seem to only have a 17' outboard to compare to, (at least in your original post). An inboard is not going to pound like an outboard simply because the engine weight is up forward and center, whereas outboard has engine weight slung off the transom. It takes more wave action to upset an inboard boat by way of physics and weight/balance.
There is a huge difference between a boat 'pounding' and the driver getting 'wet'. Neel said he gets wet, but I'll assume he may get wet without pounding. Gosh, I got 25' of inboard with high freeboard, and I get wet all the time, but my boat doesn't pound. When I am getting soaked, it is the wind blowing spray back into the cockpit, not anything to do with the actual ride. The Gentry is a low freeboard design, with aft cockpit. The wettest position in the boat is aft. The driest position is up front, the breasthook doesn't get really soaked until you take green water over the bow cleat.
I'll add a list of attributes so you can pick the attributes you like or want, or need.
An inboard is naturally more seaworthy than a outboard because of physics and weight/balance
A long lean boat is better in the chop than a short fat beamy hull
Aft cockpit gets the most spray, the front is the driest.
Chine flats would do good for a dry ride, look at Ken Hankinsons designs for 'chine flats', although I don't know of them on his 'gentleman's runabouts'
Inboards as a group of boats don't need trim tabs, the engine weight seems to trim the boat properly. When a outboard boat trims the tabs down, they are actually emulating putting weight forward.
In my humble opinion, the best riding of all the Mahogany's with tumblehome transom, is going to be the one with the best length/beam ratio. That is the Miss Chris with a beam/length ratio of 4:1. That is a long lean hull, with a forward cockpit, and a inboard engine,

I didn't mention anything about vee bottom(s) because I don't think any of the mahoganies have enough vee in the transom to make a whole lot of difference. Again, my vote goes to the length/beam ratio.
Oak..........the juice ain't worth the squeeze :D :shock: :o :)

Konrad
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by Konrad »

Thanks for the replies. Excellent info. Computing deadrise for Monte Carlo comes out to 6.5 deg at transom. Similar then if the Tahoe is 7 deg, but shallower. Its hard to tell from build pictures.

As for inboard/outboard, I'll be the first to say I know practically nothing about power boats. I've been a sailor all my life (and will continue) and feel I could offer justified opinions on sailing vessel design, but not power boats. Haven't really even spent much time in them! This will be a big departure for me, so all input is good.

Yes, Gap, much like the Aquariva. That's elegant. I will be interested to follow your project. I don't have the skills to do major mods tho. Maybe after 2 boats I will too! (check back in, oh, about 8 - 10 years LoL).

Monte Carlo is a bit beamier and a bit longer but with a 3.267 Length/Beam versus Tahoe (stretched to 24') of 3.556. Hard to know if that would be a significant difference. Other than barrel versus reverse transom, the Monte Carlo and the Tahoe look remarkably similar in design. And both are beautiful.

Well, will noodle on it while putting a coat of epoxy on the crew shell's deck :-)

Konrad
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by Konrad »

Kens, thanks for your comments. Speaks to the heart of my ignorance of powerboats! Yes, the little runabout is an outboard and takes quite a bit of trim on the motor angle to get 'bow down'.

I'm not worried about a little spray :-)

neel thompson
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Re: Right classic design for Chesapeake Bay

Post by neel thompson »

Ken is right as usual--- Very little pounding, if any, in the Gentry.... Just can be a wet ride. Best of luck figuring all of this out

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