Tom's Tahoe

A forum for contacting other builders of Ken Hankinson designs. These designs are now a part of the Glen-L family.

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TomB
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by TomB » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:33 am

Thanks for the reminder Matt. The iron/damp towel will definitely work for staple holes and raising dimples. Tom

TomB
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by TomB » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:13 am

Still working on the last planking layer...but thinking about the scary phase-stain and finish.

Most of the planking came from one tree with a distinctive swirl carrying from board to board. Therefore, most of the planks are relatively uniform in color...until I ran out of boards from that tree. I will wind up with four planks on each side of the stem that are much lighter. I hoped the stain would blend the out the light boards-it didn't. I tried applying a second layer of stain to the light pieces, didn't help.

I had some TransTint dye on the shelf so I tried that. TransTint brown mahogany #6008 dye cut with alcohol applied to the light boards comes close to matching the darker boards. Then an application of the Interlux stain brings them all together, I think...I hope.
1579 and 6008.jpg
All three panels are of Interlux 1579. The bottom left shows the light and dark board with stain only. the upper left is stain only on the dark and the light band, with 6008 on a light band at the top. The panel on the right is a light board with TransTint brown mahogany with Interlux 1579.

Tom
Last edited by TomB on Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TomB
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by TomB » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:25 am

I want to circle back to a previous post on staple holes. The Raptor staples do not stain. When I wiped the stain on it covered the staples nicely. Then the epoxy floated the stain off. Here is a close up of the staples with stain and two coats of epoxy, green arrow to the Raptors, blue arrow to staple holes.
staple holes.jpg
The staple holes are hard to see (without leaving nose smudges) once the epoxy fills the staple holes.

Tom

Brad Tucker
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by Brad Tucker » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:42 am

Tom,

No one will notice when they look at the overall boat. Don't sweat the small stuff unless you want to. As builders we know every flaw. "Perfection is the enemy of the good enough." If you want perfection, GO FOR IT! But if someone criticizes your imperfections as minor as Raptor brads, ask them how many boats have they built. You will know EVERY SINGLE FLAW. 99% of others will not unless you point them out.

TomB
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by TomB » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:44 am

This is the stain sample board as it stands today.
stain sample board.jpg
Interlux CC Red Mahogany #573 is at the bottom, then Interlux Brown Mahogany #42, followed by two panels of Interlux Red Mahogany #1579, with an epoxied panel and no stain at the top. Depending on the light and angle of view...hard to decide. What do you think?

Tom

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BayouBengal
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by BayouBengal » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:41 am

My vote (pretty much always) is no stain.

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billy c
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by billy c » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:59 am

Tom
All samples seem good in color individually. If you are staining to homogenize variations between strakes, it
looks like there is already a red (warm) tone to the wood, so would use the Brown Mahogany (brown shares all the colors in its composition)to pull things together.
Billy
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Billy's Belle Isle website

Brad Tucker
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by Brad Tucker » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:55 am

Stand back. Take an overall look. Then, go with your gut feelings. It is YOUR boat. I dyed my girl, and used the same mix in the deck as the hull. Staining does blend the differing characteristics of the boards. That is why I did it. More homogeneous. If you do so, things should be more uniform in color. If that is your wish. My boards ranged wildly. I chose to dye them. That unified the variations per board. But I am me, And not you. That is the fun part of the build. Wait.....one of the Many fun parts!

Hercdrvr
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by Hercdrvr » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:44 pm

I’m leaning toward Jeff’s view (Bayoubangal), no stain. I Bought the Sandusky Chriscraft red stain and to my eye it tones down the beauty of the wood. I want my wood boats to look like...well....wood! It’s a matter of preference though at this branch of the decision tree.
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by Bill Edmundson » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:37 pm

I'm on the no stain side. Stain is hard to match when you get that scratch, you will. Mahogany will darken with sun exposure and age on its' own. I like wood.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

TomB
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by TomB » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:07 pm

Don't sweat the small stuff unless you want to. As builders we know every flaw. "Perfection is the enemy of the good enough." If you want perfection, GO FOR IT! But if someone criticizes your imperfections as minor as Raptor brads, ask them how many boats have they built. You will know EVERY SINGLE FLAW. 99% of others will not unless you point them out.
It was kind of a science experiment with the Raptor staples. I used them on the substrate and on the bottom which will be painted. I looked at a boat built by one of the local pro boat builders just before I started the science experiment, they used a heavy narrow crown staple that punched a pair of large round holes which were a little too obvious. I became concerned when immediately after pulling staples, some of my holes look like craters too.

I was thinking about switching to composite staples for some of the brightwork but worried about the light color. But wood fiber seems to almost always relax after a week or so and close most of the holes. Once the stain/epoxy is on they are gone, almost and I really have to squint to see 'em. After seeing the results on the sample boards, I stuck with pulling staples so all the bright surfaces have staple holes, as you say "good enough". :D :D :D

Tom

TomB
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by TomB » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:58 pm

Here a couple of pictures of the light colored strakes. Just a bit of the next strake will show above the waterline and it will be light. I am inclined to darken those eight boards.
IMG_0218.jpg
IMG_0222.jpg
Tom

TomB
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by TomB » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:07 am

Coloring wood…

Thanks for the comments on coloring the hull. You’ve given me some things to think about. I asked my wife which panel she likes - “they all look the same” and “you never get the finished piece to match the samples.” :roll: Yes dear, thanks, they are really similar, maybe some are too red? :oops: I need to finish planking and sanding and have plenty of time to worry about the finish.

Comment on the difference between stain and dye...

Dyes, including TransTint, are colorants that are usually mixed in with oil, or alcohol as a carrier. Similar to dying cloth, wood dye bring about the color changes by penetrating the fiber without obscuring the the wood figure (read hard to sand off if you make a mistake). By using multiple light passes the overall hue can be changed while retaining clarity. I use dyes to blend contrasting board or to hide an area of sapwood without affecting wood figure or the overall color of the project. I am more likely to use a watercolor brush than a rag to put it where it is needed.

Stains, including Interlux Interstain Wood Filler Stain, are more like thin oil or water-based paints. While dyes are usually comprised of only dye and a carrier, stains are comprised of pigment (ground particles), a carrier and a binder like thin varnish or acrylic latex (epoxy doesn't play well with the binder in some stains!). The Interlux stains are mixed with Interlux Brushing Liquid (carrier) to thin the stain to the desired consistency. It needs to be stirred often to insure an even suspension of pigment. Then you put it on the wood with a rag, push it around, rub it off, let it dry, rub some more. If I use stain it will be with a light touch to affect the overall color/hue of the boat, i.e. make it a little more red or brown, or to make it a little more homogeneous. So the stain variables are, what color, how much carrier/thinner was added to change the density of the stain, is it stirred enough to keep the particles in suspension, how open is the wood grain (sanded to 80 grit or 120, quartering or flat graining, etc.) receiving the stain, how much stain is rubbed off. I wonder why some of you suggest its tough to match stain when making repairs?!

Tom

Brad Tucker
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by Brad Tucker » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:30 am

The problem with filling the staple holes is that if you do like I did and use a mix of epoxy and sawdust, the wood will soak up the epoxy. That will create a situation that requires a huge amount of sanding to get rid of all that, and good fairing may suffer. If you use a filler, you may end up with light areas, where the pores in the wood around the holes will hold the filler and require a huge amount of sanding, again. I had both problems. Since I was laying glass cloth in the hull, I had to (in my mind) fill all of them, along with any joint areas needing it, prior to laying the glass cloth. The epoxy in the filler made for a difficult issue. I ended up "getting on it" with a RO sander. Yeah, don't do that. Your hull will become like a circus mirror. No one has pointed it out, but like I said. I know every flaw.

I chose to go with dye, after mixing several blends until I got the color I was pleased with. I didn't want to muddy the wood grain, and dye/finish gives the wood a chatoyance that can't be achieved with pigments. But pigmented stains MAY blend boards of differing colors better. I will say that at least for me, dyes blended the boards to the point of insignificance. The drawback of dye is that they are not as colorfast under sunlight as stains from what I have researched. I rolled the dice, as my boat only sees direct sun when on or Enroute to the lake. Time will tell on that one. The dye could be cut with water or alcohol. I used water because the open time would be longer. Most likely it was trans tint, farmed out by a guitar supply ( I used to build guitars and had it on hand). Brand name was Colortone, by Stuart Macdonald Guitar Supply. I can't recommend it until 10 years from now. LOL.

A little off subject, but I fiberglassed my hull above the WL. Not the deck. I don't think I would if I ever got the privilege to build another. Especially the Tahoe. The transom and back half are problematic, being upside down. The tumblehome makes you have to glass with gravity as your enemy. If you do, be vigilant back there for sagging epoxy and starving cloth. The deck came out GREAT. The sides could have been better sans cloth.

Apologies for the long post, but I wanted to pass along all I can think of!

TomB
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Re: Tom's Tahoe

Post by TomB » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:18 am

Thanks for the insight Brad, dyes are not as color fast, within the dye group, waterborne dyes are the least colorfast. I can only guess how colorfast after epoxy and varnish layers and the wood darkens. With respect to staple holes, I don't plan to treat them special beyond a little water for the worst offenders, letting the epoxy find its way into the holes, or not, as the hull is coated. I tried FamoWood and as you point out it gets well beyond the holes. The FamoWood seemed to take stain and disappeared - at least on the sample. The plan is to glass the bottom only. The plan is for a fiberglass edge at the waterline at the stem and transom and hidden behind spray rails in between. My transom is plumb below the waterline so the epoxy should run in a nice even sheet without any outright drips. :lol: :lol:

Oh and
chatoyance
that's one is not in my vocabulary, great word, thanks,

Tom

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