Rub rails

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Brian
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:06 pm
Location: Hawaii

Rub rails

Post by Brian »

On my 28' Monte Carlo, I've got 1-1/8" SS hollow rub rails to mount, with screws on 8" centers. I've found that, if the top edge of the rail is too close to the edge of the cover board, it will slip over the top, so I'm trying to get the rail just below the edge to prevent this. It occurred to me maybe I'm making too big a deal out of this. The cover board edges are a sharp edge. I wonder if I should maybe just run a small router bit over the length of the edge and mount the rail a little below. Maybe 1/4"? I'm also thinking that if there is a good bump someday, it's likely to push the rail right over the top edge.

This gets a little sketchy aft, as it's a barrel back, so the edge disappears about 2/3 of the way. But I think a transition is possible.

hoodman
Posts: 2438
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:48 am
Location: Lafayette, IN

Re: Rub rails

Post by hoodman »

A slight round over would be good. It will hold the finish better too.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

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Jimbob
Posts: 797
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:07 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Rub rails

Post by Jimbob »

Hi Brian,
Original boats had a molding underneath the hollow rub rails. The purpose of the molding was to prevent the rub rail from digging into the varnish and side of the boat if something was hit. It also prevented dents in the rub rails in the event that you hit something. Your rub rails are the same width as mine. I made moldings to conform with the rub rails. The moldings caused the rub rail to set back about 1/8" from the hull. The moldings are also slightly wider than the rub rails. I made the moldings out of mahogany. Nothing can move around with the moldings in place. I painted the moldings black so you really don't see them on the boat. I positioned the rub rails so that the seam between the hull and the cover boards was hidden. Pics below:
Jim
Attachments
Rub rail slid back to expose the molding
Rub rail slid back to expose the molding
Rub rail and molding.  I drilled the matching holes in the molding before installing on the boat.
Rub rail and molding. I drilled the matching holes in the molding before installing on the boat.
Rub rails and moldings installed on the boat.  Notice the top of the rub rail is down from the top of the cover board.
Rub rails and moldings installed on the boat. Notice the top of the rub rail is down from the top of the cover board.
Jim Neeley
Building a Barrelback in Sacramento, CA
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28089#p172969

Hercdrvr
Posts: 1149
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 12:52 pm
Location: McKinney TX

Re: Rub rails

Post by Hercdrvr »

I rounded over the edge of the cover board with a roll of sand paper. Router bit wouldn’t work in the aft half of the boat, nothing for the bearing to ride on.
Matt B
Attachments
94078037-5571-4D42-86BC-3818EB539F50.jpeg

Brian
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:06 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Rub rails

Post by Brian »

I can't believe how long I've maintained this sharp edge on the cover boards, picking up a few nice contusions and cuts! Just in time advice, guys!

My rails were made by a guy named Jim Thorpe, who also made my cutwater and straps. His are the same as originally on boats of the '30's and '40's. Beautiful stuff and the rails are really hefty. They have die-formed tapered ends that I was told only Jim has the ability to do. Making a backing molding would be tough, and add another month to my project (in its 7th year, so ENOUGH!).

However, rounding the edge sounds like a really good idea, and after I posted my question, Matt, I realized a router would be a really dumb way to do it. Always high stress lighting up that router! I have 1/4" of solid Sapele at the seam, so that will make a nice round, tapering off aft. That will also drop the rail down to give more seam coverage. I'll probably rasp it first, and then go to 80/100/180/220 grit.

Wish I knew how to post pics of my rails and cover boards. Thanks for the support!

TomB
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: Holland, MI

Re: Rub rails

Post by TomB »

Brian,

I used a router with an ogee bit (the round-over part of the profile) similar to https://www.rockler.com/decorative-ogee-bit-oe869 to get most of the round-over. The aft end was all hand work.

Tom

Brian
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:06 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Rub rails

Post by Brian »

I'm not seeing a 100% secure way to use a router and get a consistent edge, so I'm going to attack it by hand. Not that big a job and finishing it longways with a 12" sanding board ought to make it straight.

Brian
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:06 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Rub rails

Post by Brian »

Jim, did you make up that nose piece? I had designed one to be cast in bronze, but have decided against it for now. Functionally, it helps to have a nose fairlead, but corner fairleads and a bridle accomplishes the same thing (buoy, anchor, tow). The other reason I was looking at is that my cutwater goes over the top, has a sharp point, and no handle. It's just all flat SS. Looks very clean, and I hesitate to drill holes through the top. Does yours double as a handle? Or is it just decorative?

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Aussie
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:31 pm
Location: Sarina Queensland Building 23ft Belle Isle

Re: Rub rails

Post by Aussie »

Brian,

I rounded off the edges of the cover boards but not with a router as you said the barrelback has a transition.

I done it with a small hand plane and just kept visually checking and trying a Rubrail to see what looked the best.

My rib rail was not only for protection but to also cover the paint to timber line.
Attachments
5D1626A3-3FA8-4741-8DD0-99AB41365D61.jpeg
B4BE827E-58B8-4AD8-9824-639636D9CB11.jpeg
B5CAB6D7-9AF6-45C1-AC37-E807ACC63F38.jpeg

Brian
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:06 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Rub rails

Post by Brian »

Aussie, thank you so much for that! Is yours a Monte Carlo as well? Looks very much like mine. I was starting to get brave with a router setup, but I've decided it's not really worth it. There's a relatively small amount to take off, and the shape of the edge will be continuously variable. I'm going to start with a spoke shave, go to a file, then finish with a board.

Appreciate the detail of the transom. Did you relieve the underside of the rail a little where it overlapped the strap? My ends are a little different, but that's my plan unless it's not necessary. Yours looks like it hugs very tight.

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Jimbob
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Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:07 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Rub rails

Post by Jimbob »

Jim, did you make up that nose piece? I had designed one to be cast in bronze, but have decided against it for now. Functionally, it helps to have a nose fairlead, but corner fairleads and a bridle accomplishes the same thing (buoy, anchor, tow). The other reason I was looking at is that my cutwater goes over the top, has a sharp point, and no handle. It's just all flat SS. Looks very clean, and I hesitate to drill holes through the top. Does yours double as a handle? Or is it just decorative?
It is a reproduction of what they call a fairleader. Made out of bronze and chrome plated. Mine will be functional in tying up the boat.
Couple of pics of original boats from Lake Tahoe Boat Show below. The stern picture shows how the rub rail was attached over the transom band. You will need to file the ends of the rub rails where they meet the transom band, and the cutwater, to line up with the different angles. Jim Thorpe also made my rub rails. (he did a great job)
Jim
Attachments
Picture of fairleader. It has a lip that goes over the top of the cutwater. End of rub rail butts up to the cutwater.
Picture of fairleader. It has a lip that goes over the top of the cutwater. End of rub rail butts up to the cutwater.
Picture of where the rub rail and transom band come together.  The rub rail just butts up against the transom band.
Picture of where the rub rail and transom band come together. The rub rail just butts up against the transom band.
Jim Neeley
Building a Barrelback in Sacramento, CA
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28089#p172969

Brian
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:06 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Rub rails

Post by Brian »

Jim, Jim Thorpe provided a drawing that looks just like your "butt up" rail/strap connection. But for some reason I can't recall, we decided to just go with the dart and no flat. So I will be grinding a 1/16" relief under those for the aft strap and cutwater. I think we were concerned that we couldn't know the exact angles until assembly, so this connection gave me flexibility.

I'm in process of rounding the cover board edges, putting about a 3/8" radius on them, all by hand. Started with a block plane, then a Shinto rasp, and an 80 board. Looks great and I can't believe it never occurred to me to do that. Going to make the rail installation much easier.

Do you not use open angle fairleads at the bow quarters? It looks like your nose fairlead can go both ways (dock tie or straight out). I can make something like that later, but don't want to screw quarter fairleads on if I don't need them.

The boat is shipping to upholstery in Petaluma (Rod Souza) in March, then to Sierra Boat for a prop and trials in late April, with a formal launch in May. 7 years in May!

neel thompson
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:33 pm
Location: Collegeville, Pa

Re: Rub rails

Post by neel thompson »

When I installed the rub rails on my Gentry, I made a template of the bow and took that along with two 8' lengths of rub rail to a welder. It was expensive, but he was able to cut the angle, weld, and polish it to perfection. So I ended up with a "V" shaped rub rail with 8' on each side of the angle. It looked like it was made that way. I didn't have a cutwater.
Attachments
DSCN0997 (1).JPG

Brian
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:06 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Rub rails

Post by Brian »

Gutsy with no cutwater! I've never seen spray rails up forward like that. Looks like a huge job to install. Was your boat a wet ride, or did you do that when building?

I've done a bit of metal work and it's amazing what some of these guys can do welding SS so you absolutely cannot tell.

neel thompson
Posts: 1419
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:33 pm
Location: Collegeville, Pa

Re: Rub rails

Post by neel thompson »

Spray rails were a PITA to install, but they made for a dry ride. I followed Bill Edmundson's and Butch Barto's advice and followed the chine all the way from the transom up to near the bow. The mahogany I used was actually from an 18' bleacher seat. I put it on in two laminations. A "must have" for a Tahoe and a "really nice to have" for a Gentry.
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