23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

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HoosierVet
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23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by HoosierVet »

Last fall I purchased a completed 23’ Belle Isle Barrelback that was a Hankinson design and was completed in roughly 2012/2013. The reason I was able to purchase this beautiful boat is the the builder inadvertently flipped it with about 10 hours on it. Since I bought this boat third party I have not had the opportunity to speak to the original builder and ask him the details about the accident. I was told that his daughter was knocked unconscious and would have drowned if not for his son in law. After the accident, the original owner wanted nothing to do with the boat and sold it to a friends brother, who was a master carpenter, and he then sold it to me after making the necessary repairs.

This boat has a PCM EX 343 EFI motor with a pleasurecraft direct drive. The prop appears to be a 14” and I am not sure of the pitch. I have had the boat completely looked over by the mechanic of the antique boat center in Cincinnati. He feels the boat is in excellent condition with no obvious problems.

My problem with this boat it has a tendency to “hook” when running about 4000 rpm. I am guessing that I was traveling about 32-35 mph when it happened. Obviously my concern is flipping the boat and causing serious injury to a loved one. My wife will only ride with me if I keep the boat under 2500 rpm. I understand the design with what I would call an almost vertical forward keel and a flat bottom can make this boat unstable but would you expect it roll over? At what speed would you consider unsafe for this boat? Would a larger rudder help? And most importantly what are your thoughts of adding skegs to the bottom of the boat? The mechanic would only add them if a marine architect signed off. Any thoughts on my dilemma would be appreciated. Thank you.

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Roberta
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by Roberta »

Not sure what you mean by "hook". Do you mean porpoising? Trim tabs may help with high speed porpoising. I added them to my Torpedo to bring the bow down at high speeds to stabilize the ride. Above 35 to 40 mph mild chop would set off porpoising and make for an annoying ride that required speed reduction to re-stabilize the boat. The trim tabs make the boat a dream to ride at any speed.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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Gayle Brantuk
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by Gayle Brantuk »

Hi HoosierVet--it was good to talk to you today and I'm glad you've posted. Hopefully one of the folks who has built one of the barrelbacks can comment about this. We have an article on our site that talks about this issue to clarify: https://boatbuilders.glen-l.com/996/bui ... m-boat-25/

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billy c
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by billy c »

I know who’s boat it is and of the accident. Would be interested also in some details also as I’ve run mine for quite a few seasons and have not experienced that.
Not sure what you mean by hooking but would not run it at those speeds 40 if it is doing that. Start by making sure the running surface is perfectly flat at the transom forward for about 5 feet. Also flat chine to chine at the transom.
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

benpetre
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by benpetre »

I am far from an expert, but I understood that many of these classic boats are susceptible to “hook”. Hook meaning that they are on plane/at speed and the sharp bow of the boat is out of the water. Then a wake or wave comes in from an angle and the bow catches it and pulls the bow hard to one side which tries to roll the boat to the opposite side. Can be quite violent by rumor but I have never experienced it. Unfortunately, I also do t know the solution for it. I imagine the fins could help so the bow is not turned by the wave or either keeping the bow higher out of the water (ballast?) or lower so that it is always charging thru the water and therefore more stable? I am a builder, not an engineer
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Roberta
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by Roberta »

There are better hull designs for speed than the flat bottom barrel backs. You can get classic looks in Rivieras and Monte Carlos and have a safer, wider hull meant for higher speed. Sometimes the older designs get pushed beyond their intended purpose. Unfortunate.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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kens
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by kens »

The solution is to get out of the throttle.
That engine mentioned in the OP is a real beast, not intended for a barrelback, but rather a 'hotter' boat.
I rode a Riviera with that same engine and clocked 62mph GPS in the back seat. Even the Riviera felt loose at high throttle.
That engine is too much for even a Riviera, I felt it get loose, not to mention something tame like a barrelback.

My boat will hook also, and it does not have the plumb stem, nor a skeg. Nor does it go 40+ mph.
Mine will hook approaching the from of the boat in front of you, and you overtaking his wave, at an angle.
The forefoot of the bow tends to follow that wave angle, and get your attention at the helm.
I never felt like it want to chine-trip, but it will get your attention. And I don't have V8 power to test it with though.

If you look at the body plan of the lines, and see the forward frames sections deeper than the aft sections, then I believe you will get the hooking at high speed and overtaking a wave at a off angle. When my boat is sitting level, the forward frames draft 9" more than the transom.
My belief is this is where the hooking comes from.
This appears to be a inland calm water thing, (overtaking a straight wave) as I do not get any hooking in offshore seas.
Oak is over rated, everything about it takes extra time; then it warps, splits or checks !!! :roll:

hoodman
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by hoodman »

It would be helpful the condition of the water when this happens. Calm water? Crossing wakes? Afternoon chop? I could definitely imagine that plum stem catching a wake the wrong way and giving you an unwanted course correction.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

HoosierVet
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by HoosierVet »

Thank you for all of your responses. This happened about 6 weeks ago and I cannot exactly remember how rough the water was when it happened. We were just enjoying the water and honestly was so startled when it happened. I would rate the water as mild chop but what I can’t remember if there was a cross wave coming at the boat. We have throttled back considerably and have not gone over 3000 rpm since. I understand the dynamics of the flat bottom boat and was hoping someone on the forum may have had some experience with skegs.

HoosierVet
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by HoosierVet »

Thank you for all of your responses. This happened about 6 weeks ago and I cannot exactly remember how rough the water was when it happened. We were just enjoying the water and honestly was so startled when it happened. I would rate the water as mild chop but what I can’t remember if there was a cross wave coming at the boat. We have throttled back considerably and have not gone over 3000 rpm since. I understand the dynamics of the flat bottom boat and was hoping someone on the forum may have had some experience with skegs.

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billy c
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by billy c »

That really doesn’t sound right. I’ve been out in snotty stuff and while not going 35 thru it it never has the tendency to hook and that was thru chaotic wave directions. I would get that mechanic or experienced captain to take the helm. Might be able to narrow down the problem
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

HoosierVet
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by HoosierVet »

My wife and I took a roughly 32 mile ride This afternoon and when we returned it was typical afternoons chop. We were running around 2500-2700 rpm and had no problems. So as stated before I have no problem staying out of the throttle and just enjoying the ride. Does anyone think a longer rudder would be more beneficial as well?

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billy c
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by billy c »

Or too much rudder. What side/shape is it?
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

HoosierVet
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by HoosierVet »

Appears to be 10” long and 11” deep roughly

Hercdrvr
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Re: 23’ Belle Isle “hooking”

Post by Hercdrvr »

Can we get a picture of this boat and the specs on the engine?
Matt B

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