mor tug boats cuestions

A forum for contacting other builders of Ken Hankinson designs. These designs are now a part of the Glen-L family.

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carlos bairo
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mor tug boats cuestions

Post by carlos bairo » Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:14 am

hi i am going the dry exhaust sistem on titan
i have some idea but not to confident of the constrution of the
dry stack exhsaust setting or design
i am need to looking a blueprint picture or sketch .
the exhaust pipe will be provide with ss steel mufler an insulation and the
stack with air ventilation intake for the engine
looking for advice thanks
carlos :roll: :roll:

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Bill Edmundson
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Post by Bill Edmundson » Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:30 am

Carlos,

I'm sorry that nobody else has tried to answer this one.

I think that I would make a box enclosure for the dry stack. Leave at least 5 cm clear air space from the wood to the stack. Make some type of bracket to hold the wood and metal apart.

This would also make a good source for engine air.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

slug
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Post by slug » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:18 am

Carlos; I would also have some ventilation openings on the side or back of the motor box. This would create a natural air flow past the motor and up the hollow stack, helping to cool the exhaust and motor. You may also be able to leave the fan in place that comes on the industrial engine.
The Titan in Michigan had a heavy duty flex pipe between the manifold and the muffler up the stack.
Doug

Kevin Morin
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Dry Stack Ideas

Post by Kevin Morin » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:25 pm

carlos bairo,

I hope these images will show up? [My posts haven't had any image connections in the past so I may not understand the method?]

Here are a few images of the principals behind most commercial boat dry exhaust stacks. The colors are to make the different parts show up more clearly -not my paint scheme suggestions.

Image

Image

Image

I didn't try to show a tug's stack and if this won't help, I'll try to draw something closer to a tug looking stack instead of this example.

A few key points; the top stack is most often mild steel and rusts badly when in the weather so an aluminum or SS housing is close fitted over the top stack bend/miter. The close fit helps with a temperature induced and exhaust induced venturi creating a low pressure at the top of the exhaust trunk. (orange) This helps pull air out of the vertical trunk- and will exhaust an engine space well.

The vent (blue) on the after side of the trunk allows air in and out of the trunk so you don't have to 'balance' the flow out of the trunk, any additionally required inflow will go in this grilled vent. But if the trunk is hot and there is little air flow from the top two stacks forming a venturi to help lift the heat, it will flow out this grilled vent.

hope this helps your planning?

cheers,
Kevin Morin

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Bill Edmundson
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Post by Bill Edmundson » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:06 pm

Kevin,

I think I've said this before. But, I sat back at first wondering about your motives. But, THANKS for your very experienced help. You are a great help to all.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

DonBing
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Post by DonBing » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:03 pm

Kevin-- Is that Google SketchUp?

Don

Kevin Morin
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Image Files

Post by Kevin Morin » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:27 pm

Bill Edmundson, thank you for your kind words, I (really) would like to help others avoid my myriad mistakes, that's about it. Oh, and I don't watch TV so I need something to keep me out of the street, so what better than virtually 'messing about in [building] boats?

Glad to be of some help.

DonBing,
yes, I draw the models in SketchUP then set the view and use 'export' as a *.jpg "snapshot" which seems to give decent image quality without too large a file.

Then I usually open the exported *.jpg in Photoshop and Image>Crop to eliminate SketchUP's white area border, then use the Image>Size command to reduce to a narrow pixel count (max 800 wide), then 'Save As' to get a file size dialog box. I typically use the mid-sized or #5 in the that dialog to reduce file size [Kb of storage not the image pixels] so they will upload easily.

I don't often use the shadows, or other image enhancements unless the model will be better explained by the shadow or background enhancements. SketchUP is much more horsepower than needed for simple models to accompany an online reply post; but I use it.

If things get really complicated Rhino and Acad are still the big dogs, but I can get more done quickly in SketchUP than in either of the others.

cheers,
Kevin Morin

carlos bairo
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more tug cuestions

Post by carlos bairo » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:17 am

hi ....kevin
thanks for your wonderful sketchs , as you saying on you info ,
it will be nice of you if you can can draw a sketch for a tug boat dry stak
chimney for my , you ve been very helpful , grate to have people like
you in the forum to guide new boats buildrs fulfill their dreams.

regards carlos :D :D :D

Kevin Morin
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Sample Exhaust Housing for Titan Tug

Post by Kevin Morin » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:24 pm

carlos bairo,

I haven't had much time to spend on your sketches but here is a preliminary idea for the cylindrical housing.

With most of my illustrations I use sort of bright colors to make the parts more easily understood in smaller sizes. I don't expect there are many pink silencer/mufflers in common use and the yellow top stack is a bit odd looking too. My point is more to show how the shapes could relate than to suggest a paint scheme.

Image

The cowling or stack housing is pulled back to show the part of the cylinder that is cut into the back of the house bulkhead. This curved piece of 1/8" roll would stiffen the after bulkhead so that no other support would be needed.

Image

here the view is more above the deck aft the house, and we can look down the shapes making the two flanges on the sides of the rolled housing more obvious. The muffler would be totally supported on brackets that were welded to the inside of the after cabin bulkhead recess.

Image

Same view from port instead of starboard.

Image

two views of the hull with this type of stack outline matched to the house lines from the outboard profile on line at Glen-L's plans pages. I haven't modeled a top shroud and that will make the 'look' more jaunty.

This same idea could be done but making the stack's back edge raked forward a little to give the impression of a conic stack in the outboard view.

I'll try to find some time to do more on this but I hope these sketches coupled with the previous example of a fisherman's dry stack will help you in your planning of this fine looking little tug boat.

cheers,
Kevin Morin

carlos bairo
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:12 pm
Location: SYDNEY AUSTRALIA

mor tug boats cuestions

Post by carlos bairo » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:31 pm

hi keven ... you design it is grate and bery style , thanks for your
wanderful help , i will take some pictures with the progres ,at the moment
i am working on the chine raund bars ,the skeg is on, so far so good.
what type of diesel motor sould be you idea ,15 to 40hp range,
and with type of proppeller , 22'' or 18'' ,beacause some coments from
the forums regarding people that build TITAN on MITCHIGAN recommend
that 22''prop it is far to big . my knologe on engines it is bery limited so
i am need advice to select the suitable one , YANMAR/KOBOTA/BETA/
are the most popular but i looking in to my budget didn't get to tighten,
some of them are in the mark of 15,000-$aust dolars.

regards CARLOS BAIRO

carlos bairo
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:12 pm
Location: SYDNEY AUSTRALIA

more tug cuestions

Post by carlos bairo » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:28 am

hi Dug..... thanks for you info i will take the advice , new that i am look
some grate sketchs from Kevin , very nice designs of tug boats cavins
style , the ventilation sistem on the stak seccion on the sketch are
very similar at you sugestion for kooling the exhaust pipe .
thanks for you help .

regards Carlos

carlos bairo
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:12 pm
Location: SYDNEY AUSTRALIA

Post by carlos bairo » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:02 am

hi bill...thanks for you consern on my cuestions of the stak sistem,
it is bery nice of you to help new bots builders like my.
people like you with experience willing always to help make this forum
a pleasure to reading and to learn something new always.

regards Carlos

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BruceDow
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Post by BruceDow » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:42 am

DonBing wrote:Kevin-- Is that Google SketchUp?

Don
Now THAT is cool! I downloaded it, and within five minutes I had designed a simple table, and was spinning it around in mid air!

I haven't figured out how to do smooth curves for a boat hull yet... but I will.
Bruce.

~~ Do what you love, and love what you do. ~~
~~ To me - only my boat is not yet perfect. Everybody else's is to be admired for I know the path they have walked (Dave Lott, 2010) ~~
Dow's Monaco Project

Kevin Morin
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SketchUP Hull Modeling

Post by Kevin Morin » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:44 pm

Bruce Dow,

I usually model the hull and most 'boat' surfaces in Delftship Pro, export to "*.dxf 3D" which is AutoCAD's transfer format and import into Sk'Up and do some 'cleanup' work there.

For example, I created the tug in D'Ship Pro but added the split stack housing then modified the after cabin bulkhead and added the silencer and did all views and coloring in Sk'UP. Using each piece of software for its tools set.

Delftship Pro has an introductory version, as I think Sk'UP does? But each application has tools or features the other doesn't have. Since Google bought Sk'UP, support has gone up quite a bit, Delftship Pro however isn't as well supported because the author/programmer is one man.

I have written a set of free tutorials for D'shipPro - so basic that several of my friends who had never used any CAD system before were fairing skiffs in a few days. I send the lessons free in email, let me know at iisco@acsalaska.net if anyone who wants them?

There are nine lessons that take you from the first key stroke, in a "click this __" next, "type that" method to explore the tools and displays then model some skiff shapes. A friend who wasn't very PC experienced was interested in what I was doing so I wrote them trying to give a building-on-the-last-lesson sequence of exercises.

The tools in Sk'UP were designed to give architects a KISS drawing system so they could quickly model "square" buildings. Using it for hulls does take more time, and very special techniques, as the curves are usually set to very segmented lines. I don't try to draw hulls in Sk'UP but I do use it to make presentation sketches which are not very easy, or more limited in D'Ship Pro.

SketchUP doesn't have a true BSpline or Bezier curve tool, and working with curves is somewhat limited to arcs; so there are some built-in tool properties that make hull work ineffective.

I wrote all this because I don't want you grinding away trying to do hull models in one application that was done in another.

[FULL DISCLOSURE: Part of my business is as an industrial designer, and the fact that I work full time with these and other 3D applications means lots (thousands of hours) of practice with these image generating tools. AND: The lessons in D'Ship only teach computer use techniques; not marine design principles.]

cheers,
Kevin Morin

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BruceDow
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Post by BruceDow » Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:40 pm

Thanks, Kevin.

(I'm an IE too, but I'm at a point in my career where I do more powerpoint and excel than serious systems design)

I'm not really serious about fairing a hull online, but thanks for the advice that this aint the tool to do it with should I ever choose to try.

But I am excited to learn this a bit.
Bruce.

~~ Do what you love, and love what you do. ~~
~~ To me - only my boat is not yet perfect. Everybody else's is to be admired for I know the path they have walked (Dave Lott, 2010) ~~
Dow's Monaco Project

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