Glen-L.com

When we bought the Hankinson domain name, we added this forum to give builders of Ken's plans a place to find help. It hadn't occurred to us that this forum would become a place to swap plans.

For the most part, the boat designers you see advertising in the back of Woodenboat magazine are small businesses, and have limited means to pursue their rights. It is generally "understood" that a set of plans is meant to build a single boat. Although the plans have a physical dimension, what is being sold is information. It would not generally be considered ethical to buy a book, read it and return it. The same applies to plans. Having said that, I am not a lawyer, and I don't know how all of the scenarios mentioned would play out in court.

In the small boat design community, plan sellers depend on the good will of their customers. If you want to be able to choose plans from a diverse group of designers, it is in your interest to see that the designers make a profit. Most small boat designers are hobbyists, who cannot support themselves by selling plans alone. In this respect, Glen-L is the same. We sell boatbuilding supplies in order to be able to continue to design and sell boat plans. Like most designers, this is something we enjoy doing.

As I understand it, Ken wanted to be able travel and to live a life that did not require that he be home to answer questions. I don't know if there is another way in which Ken could have managed this. For the time being, Ken's plans are not available; he has the originals and has not made arrangements with anyone else to sell them. We hope you will be able to find a substitute on our site. That’s why we bought the domain.

We hope that this forum will be used by builders of Ken’s designs who need help. Talking about boatbuilding is a lot more fun that talking about copyright law.

Barry

Sounds pretty good to me Barry hate talkin about copyright love talkin about boats!

Although Im searching for the wild cat or bear cat catamaran design as I truely think that a cat of about 20 - 24ft would be ideal for fishing around Esperance and the Great Australian Bight it had taken me near on 4 years to finally decide that that was the design I wanted ... only to find Ken had retired

Sad for me but great for him!!!

Procrastination the enemy and nemisis of man... and me!

This time of year two years ago, March 2003, I started my Tahoe 20 project. I purchased my plans from Ken and started in with a pile of wood in my shop. Last summer we used our boat for skiing and wake boarding and our times spent on the boat made up for the time away from my family working in the shop. Last winter, 2005, I spent refinishing and doing the final touches to our boat and she is formally finished. I am offering my experience to anyone that can use a hand in building this type of boat since Ken is no longer available. I can inform anyone interested in what I have done, not what you should do. You can visit my free web site at: http://www.geocities.com/tahoe20john
to view my project. I also have a windshield mold to be used for this project if anyone is interested. If you have questions please email me at avidjohn@yahoo.com
More than likely I will not check this list offen.

John
Seattle

I am happy to find a mechanism to communicate with other builders of Hankinson designed boats. I hope to finish (finally!!) an 18' Biscayne this summer. While the building methodology is similar between the Biscayne and Riviara, I always felt a little guilty visiting the Glen-L forum to ask questions because there was no similar site available on Ken's site. This project is as much fun today as it was the day it started back in Sept. 2001. I too have purchased parts from my boat from Glen-L and look forward to developing some one-on-one relationships with other mahogany builders to exchange ideas re: deck design, suppliers, etc. Thanks Glen-L for this mechanism.

Ron Chatfield Alpena Michigan
rcc@deepnet.net

Dear Barry and friends,

Hankinson and Associates offered plans of designs that were unique and as much as I love all of the Glen-L designs, some of Ken's offerings do not have equivalents in the Glen-L catalog. Example Ken offered a series of large stitch and glue dories similar to Hunky Dory but detailed in stitch and glue construction. Ken offered two large sailing versions of the St. Pierre dory. Lucky Pierre I beleive is only a powered version. Kens WYSIWYG the plastic drain pipe skiff always intrigued me and I considered building one just for the conversation it would generate at the marina, not to mention the fun you could have naming one of those boats.
I beleive Ken offered a sloop in the 28' range that had some success in the Newport - Ensenada offshore sailing race.

Some of Hankinson and Associates designs were drawn by active designers that may have other outlets for their plans, such as Sam Devlin and Charles Witholtz, but many of the designs were unique to Ken's site.
I sincerely Hope that in the near future these designs again become readily and properly available with the proper compensation paid to those that are due. Nothing would please me more than to see the Hankinson and Associates catalog made available on the best boat design web site on the net- The Glen-L web site. Hey- How about someone getting on the phone and lets try to make a deal!

Barry,

Ok....here's my two cents.

You guys should offer to buy the rights to the plans with a portion of each plan sold going back to Ken with the understanding that he has no responsibility to answer questions. You folks have been in the Boat Plans biz for more years than I know and should be able to answer most questions on the plans.

The Flicka and Allegra are my favorites from the Hankinson Site and I'm sure that other's have their favorites also. That aside, The Flicka is an impressive boat and there is nothing else like it on the market either in plans form or new as Pacific Seacraft no longer makes it for sale as a completed boat.

When I first clicked on Hankison's site and was directed here, I thought good..all is not lost. Unfortunately, you have none of the plans for sale, just this forum. It was a dissapointment to say the least.

Anyway, just the ramblings of a fan of two of his boats and would like to be able to build one of them someday. Good luck in your continuing negotiations, if they in fact exist.

Dave

I would also like to add my 2 cents. (maybe if enough of us put in 2 cents Glen-L could afford to negotiate!) It would be a shame to lose those Hankinson designs that don't have any replacements such as the St. Pierre sailing dories. I was reading Howard Chappelle's book, American Small Sailing Craft. In it he talks about a sailing dory with a cuddy cabin, 2 unstayed masts and ballast and swing keel. These were used at Swampscott by Italian fishermen. Maybe Glen-L could adapt the "Lucky Pierre" to mirror this American classic? Could we be this "lucky"?
I do agree with the other folks in that I can't see why, as long as Ken gets credit for the plan and some compensation like royalties, that Glen-L couldn't take over his plan sales as well. Everybody wins

I think it's only a matter of time before someone obtains the rights to these outstanding plans and designs. As an amateur, my reserch on a number of companies who supply plans has led me to believe that Ken's plans and building methods do have an edge over most. His simplistic and clear approach to building is clearly appealing to most novice boat builders. Come on Glen-L! Do the inevitable before someone else gets the idea.

I am personally interested in the Titan. A 21' Tug made from steel. My disappointment in finding out the plans were not available was considerable since my investment in research time seemed now a waste of time. I purchased the study plans and finally made the decision to proceed, but am now dead in the water because of this glitch. Dangit!

Barry,
After reading the posts on this thread, I am somewhat confused as to the connection between Hankinson & Glen-L. Last summer(2007), I bought the plans & patterns for Ken's Lodestar 55. I plan to begin construction on hull #1, in the spring/summer of 2009. I appreciate that I am required to pay the plans/patterns cost for each subsequent hull built. When I reach the point of beginning construction on my second hull, do I make the licensing arrangements with Ken Hankinson or Glen-L? If I wish to discuss the possibility of design modifications(twin keels), do I contact Ken directly or can Glen-L accomodate this? I'd appreciate your direction in this matter.
Mike

Lodestar was designed by the Glen L team. Ken Hankinson was part of that team when he worked for Glen L (many years) before going off on his own. Glen L owns the total rights to the Lodestar. Contact Glen L for further info

Thank you. Will do.