Glen-L.com

Just wondering if anyone has done a cold molded hull with out laying glass over it? As a restorer I think about any potential repairs in the future being extreamly difucalt to blend in and not see the line where glass was patched. (Hopfully it would be several years before the boat would require surgery)

Would it be ok to add a fourth layer of mahogany to the hull sides instead of the glass? Or does this style hull depend on the strength of the glass somewhat?


At this point we are still working on the boat a good four days a week and now have the first layer on the bottom and the second layer I should have done in a few days.

I have decided to filp the boat before planking the hull sides to be able to check carefully for fairness (especiallt in the transom/ hull side area) because as I had mentioned eailier we were starting with frame work that was somewhat assembled by the gentalman I got the the project from. We will then finishing planking the boat up side down again.

I have uploaded some pictures for everyone to see in the picture archives. Right now it is alphabeticly under Belle Isle but the Name of the boat is SHMENDRICK.
Thanks ,
Jeremy Goldstein

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Jeremy Goldstein

I am building the Monte Carlo and it is similar. I am putting only the required layers of plywood with the final lamination of mahogany. i am not glassing the sides. I am glassing the bottom. This design does not require the glass for strength but rather for protection. Like you I am concerned with future repairs. Someone with more knowlege than me will chime in soon. Good luck with your build.

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John Amundsen
Monte Carlo
Winter Haven, FL

Maybe it will be done by G6 and maybe not.

hi Jeremy and John-
might as well get in this discussion.
I was thinking the same way as you were at this point in the build. ended up doing the opposite... (cloth on the topsides) and very happy with the results after the first year. my final decision was based on the boat sitting in the water for the season. there is no doubt that glass was the good protection against water intrusion. unless you are always on a perfectly flat piece of water the topsides are going to be wet. unglassed the exposed bright finished wood does and will check and move as humidity fluctuates like traditional wooden boats. all those strakes glued together on the topsides will eventually move, open and let weather in. one of the benefits of coldmold was a low maintenance hull and avoid the pitfalls of the Chris Crafts etc. by stabilizing the wood. the fiberglass/epoxy barrier sealing the wood was part of the process.

...i could be all wrong about this though
-Billy

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(insert witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

hi Billy and John,
I have also concidered only doing the bottom but Im a little concerned about being able to blend the glass in the front just above the chine to the top sides where there would not be glass. Also I was thinking about the potential of water getting behind the glass and creating havic around the water line. Glassing the bottom there is really only one worry spot otherwist an that would be the shaft hole. I was thinking about purchasing a glass tube and installing it prior to laying glass as I would be able to use a little CSM (chopped strand mat) to attach to the tube. Still as of now I am not sure which way to go. The restorer in me that has removed glass off of many classic wooden boats is fighiting with the other side of me to go ahead and stick with the plan.

As of 10 minutes ago we now are more than half way thru the second layer on the bottom. This thing is really flying together now that we are on a roll.
Cleaning up left over spots of epoxy and cutting all the limberholes took what seemed forever but now this project is really taking shape.

I have been doing a little research on engines and am concidering having a new 360 ci chrysler built for me it seems to have a bit more low end tork than the compareable 350 chevy ( crusader) and having it custom built seems to be a few thousand less than a standard crate engine. Any thoughts good bad or indifferent would be great.

I have started to put all my hardware that I need in line. I have chose to install the bugatti style windshield on the front cockpit and also install a smaller version on the rear cockpit. It sounds crazy but it looks like the hardware will cost more than the engine . ( I better keep saving $$ )
Jeremy

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Jeremy Goldstein

Jeremy,

I'm not sure,but I seem to remember reading somewhere that chopped mat doesn't work with epoxy....something about the binder that holds the mat together isn't designed to desolve in epoxy resin like polyester.

Whichever motor you use,when you flip the hull,others have found slight height clearance problems with the hatches/deck.

When planing the deck build,some have changed the camber, others have changed the height to compensate for this.

This may not apply to your model,but it would pay to check especially if using a different engine.

Good luck on the rest...the pics look great

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Boat building can best be defined as an endless series of
tragedies obscured by the occasional miracle, followed by a good bottle of beer.

Don't Dream Your Life, Live Your Dream

Jeremy - I personally am NOT going to glass my topsides on my Riviera. Why? Because I am not good at it and it will show. I did do my bottom under the paint for abrasion protection . However, I am still going to do an epoxy build up on the topsides. This will afford some level of protection for the sides.

You have to also consider your usage of the boats. Do you have instances where the boat will bump a dock or other hard stuff? If so, glass might be recommended. I do not have the issue. I do have a dock and lift but I have well bumpered guide posts that keep my boats away from the hard dock. I am not nearly as concerned about topside protection to that sense.

In the end, the decision is yours. If you feel you can do a bang up job that will not telegraph thru your bright work then go for it. It is cheap insurance and why not? On the other hand, if you question your ability to work it out properly and have the glass show later, you will kick yourself in the backside.

Regarding the shaft hole, there is the alternative of plugging it. This is the process of boring your original shaft hole and then filling it thickened epoxy. After it sets, rebore your hole to a slightly lesser diameter. It leaves a great layer of thickened epoxy lining the entire hole and seals the wood tight. The thickened epoxy bonding with your hull layup will create a continuous seal for you.

Regarding your engine. I am installing the PCM 5.7L Ex. There is an issue with height that I will deal with on the flip side. At this moment, I am changing the arc of my deck beams to compensate.


Good luck

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Dave

My Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project

Video of Midnight in Action
Blog

Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.

hi Jeremy-
you are right!! i was looking for those windshields... when i saw $5,000 each http://www.californiaclassicboats.com/g ... assemblies
was thinking what else i might do with ten grand. lots of these parts fall into the realm of those who absolutely need them for a restoration.
but they would be a beautiful asset if you can add that to your boat.
am not sure how much low end you think you need but that is a pretty light hull and will pin your to your seat with the 350
also it bolts up perfectly and no clearance problems. the motor outline on the plans is SBC with the 71c. ....might be worth it just knowing it fits. lots of time lost if you start fiddling with your hatches. and cutting away at your frames.
great job by the way on the build so far! just got done looking at the pictures. you really got the hull in good shape. must be hard taking over a project at that point and knowing where to start
-Billy

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(insert witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

That is a good idea to fill the shaft hole with epoxy and bore thru the epoxy. As far as where I use the boat, As a very active ACBS member I go all over the country to diferent boat shows and group boat trips. Some places have good docking and others are a little scary. I just took a trip in the Tenn. River last month in my 23' Lyman along with 11 other antique & classic boats thru 5 locks . From Chattunuga to huntsville Alabama.

Regarding the bugatti windshields Fish Bros. Marine also casts them and a friend of mine in my Acbs chapter thinks he can machine a set. So which ever way ends up to be more affordable I will go for it. Still looks like the most expensive part of the project.

The guy I think I will use to build the engine says he will give me a dummy engine to use as a mock up to make sure it will fit. If it is a no go then I will go back to the 350.

I have built my boat a bit more beefy than the plans call for by increasing the battens to 3/4 x 1 1/2 ", the stem is built in a traditional manor using a three piece white oak stem and nee (instead of the plywood stem)with a layer of 1 1/2" thich mahogany flanked on either side of it to catch all the battens with are mortised and glued into it instead of just cutting an angle on the back side of the battens and screwing them in . The chines are also double thick to give a nice wide area to glue planking to. The entire frame work was also coated with three coats of CPES (smiths Clear Penatrating Epoxy Sealer) to further prevent water form getting into the cell structure of the wood. The boat will be a little heaver by maybe 200 lbs at my best guess but I am not trying to set the world speed record anyway.

How have some of you transfered the correct waterline from the top of the stringer to the out side of the hull ?

I will upload some mor pictures shortly
Thanks
Jeremy

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Jeremy Goldstein

i measured up from the floor to the setup level waterline mark height. then shot a laser line at the hull that distance from the floor.

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(insert witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

yes, I did the same thing. It created a dead on line all the way around the boat. My plans call for a 1" rise in the water line from stern to stem so I raised the stem up 1 inch to allow the lazer to create the line for me.

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Dave

My Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project

Video of Midnight in Action
Blog

Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.

I'm a little late to this thread - however...

I would recommend glassing the bottom and topsides. I did mine, and there is no noticeable epoxy/glass overlap seam. The trick is in how you go about it.

First - the materials. Use 4oz glass cloth and use MAS low viscosity resin. This epoxy is very thin - like warm maple syrup thin.. not quite water thin though.

This may help - the 4oz cloth is very thin.. it wets out perfectly clear (i.e. You can not see the weave). You can barely see the edge of the weave in this picture - but nothing from the top.
Just fyi: This is two layers of Okume, one layer of Mahogany, Stain, 1 layer of 4oz cloth with 3 layers of epoxy and a few layers of varnish. Take a look at the canoe/kayak sites and they all use MAS Epoxy - the thin stuff is the only epoxy I'll use on wood finished bright.

I used the chine as the joint line between the bottom and the topsides. In the bow area where the sides and the bottom meet, slice a nice clean seam - w/o overlap, it is better to leave a gap if you must. You can fill the gap with epoxy on the filler coats. That way there will be no line.

I like the protection the glass provides. I did not glass the deck of interior components.

Hope this helps

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Regards,
Bob Perkins

My Current Projects
http://h12restoration.shutterfly.com/
http://nutshellpramconstruction.shutterfly.com/

My Completed project
http://biscayne22.shutterfly.com

Thanks for the advise. You dont think there should be any concern of water (over the years ) working its way into the flush seam of 4oz and 6oz. glass as the hull flexes?

For my hull I have chosen to go with one layer of 3mm of ply and three laters of solid sapeli 1/8 strips the rest of the way.
Jeremy

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Jeremy Goldstein

Hi Jeremy,
My hull was 4 layers on the bottom, 3 layers on the topsides.

The bottom was Okume - except at the bow area where the wood shows. of course the topsides and transom's outer layer were mahogany. I'm not sure I'm a fan of using sapeli for the inner layers for two reasons. 1) It will cost more, no? 2) The 3mm okume has 3 ply's. More ply's = more strength. I think your way will work - I'm just not sure if there is an advantage.

If you build the hull correctly - I would not plan on if flexing. These hull designs are super stiff. There is no flex, and there certainly will not be any in the tight areas up at the bow. The hulls are essentially tubes. If they *flex* - I think there will be a bigger problem. The outer glass coating is for water and abrasion protection - not strength necessarily. Kind of like a glove, not a cast.

Hope this helps

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Regards,
Bob Perkins

My Current Projects
http://h12restoration.shutterfly.com/
http://nutshellpramconstruction.shutterfly.com/

My Completed project
http://biscayne22.shutterfly.com

Jeremy

I'm with Bob on this one. The ply works nicely. I found the Mahogany a bit more work and then there is the price. These boats are really strong!

I think you will be happier with the glass than without. Practice on some scrap plywood. Yes, you can see fabric a few places on my boat. But, I've banged the dock a couple of times and so far I'm good.
The key is good light and a good wet out of the glass.

Bill

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Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

I think the glassing is better if you encapsulate the wood first; then apply the glass cloth in the dry manner. This way there is a even amount of resin used throughout.
If you dont encapsulate first, then the wood tends to dry out the cloth showing dry spots that you have hard time controlling.

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