Corrugated fasteners

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Cornnutz
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:48 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV.

Corrugated fasteners

Post by Cornnutz » Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:15 pm

In the plans, they call for fasten the side walls together using 5/8" X #5 corrugated fasteners. They are a pain in the but to drive.
I was wondering what everybody else was using.
I saw in builders photos, the couple that built Acapulco, they used an air roofing stapler with 1" wide staples. Is this a secure enough joint? Should these joints be glued as well.

lynnburcher
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:53 am
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Post by lynnburcher » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 am

Cornnutz wrote:In the plans, they call for fasten the side walls together using 5/8" X #5 corrugated fasteners. They are a pain in the but to drive.
I was wondering what everybody else was using.
I saw in builders photos, the couple that built Acapulco, they used an air roofing stapler with 1" wide staples. Is this a secure enough joint? Should these joints be glued as well.
Hey Cornnutz, this forum doesn't get much activity, does it?

Even if you glue the frame joints, I would question the strength of the joint with staples. As I'm sure you know, a good glue joint depends on the joint being clamped together while the glue sets. Staples across the joint don't provide force in the proper direction.

However, having said that, I helped my father build a few campers way back when, and on some we used 1" staples. The difference is that we did this on a camper that had the inside paneling and the outside skin glued to both the Styrofoam insulation and to the framing, so once the glue set up the walls were basically one solid piece. The staples only needed to hold the frame in place until the glue dried. By the way, we used smaller staples to hold the inner and outer skin in place while the glue dried, but these staples were in the proper orientation to apply correct force on the glue joints. Does that make sense?

But that's just MHOBOLE

(my humble opinion based on limited experience) ;)

Cornnutz
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:48 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV.

Stapled joints & inner 7 outer skin

Post by Cornnutz » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:09 pm

Thanks for the reply.
That was my feeling about the staples as well. I am planing to glue/ nail a panelling on the inside and applying a layer of 3/16" to the outside ( glueing and stapled as well) seeing I'm going with Filon for outer skin.
So, If I'm reading you correctly, your saying, by sandwiching the wall as 1 unit the 1" staples should do fine.

Eric
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:40 pm

idea

Post by Eric » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:25 pm

Hi Guys

I'm thinking of building one myself, a little break from boats.

How about these?

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5985

Eric

lynnburcher
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:53 am
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Re: Stapled joints & inner 7 outer skin

Post by lynnburcher » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:04 am

Cornnutz wrote:Thanks for the reply.
That was my feeling about the staples as well. I am planing to glue/ nail a panelling on the inside and applying a layer of 3/16" to the outside ( glueing and stapled as well) seeing I'm going with Filon for outer skin.
So, If I'm reading you correctly, your saying, by sandwiching the wall as 1 unit the 1" staples should do fine.
According to my experience, it should be fine, but I'm not a structural engineer or anything ;) My old man used to say that nails are only needed until the glue sets... and I think that's especially true with fully-glued structural sections like this.

First, I have to ask: Have you tried contacting the couple you referenced earlier, that used the staples? I think there's a contact link listed for them.

Back when my father and I did our campers Filon and such did not exist, but we built the walls with a paneling-insulation-paneling sandwich, much like you mentioned, and then attached aluminum camper siding on the outside. With regard to the Filon, I haven't used it, and can only suggest what I would try. I even think you should be able to glue the Filon on the outside, and leave out the layer of 3/16" you talked about. I think it would be plenty strong, a little cheaper, and a lot lighter.

It always pays to test before committing, especially when getting anonymous advice over the internet, from someone whose credentials you don't know ;) so build a sample and see what it takes to destroy it!

Also, as you probably know, different materials have different thermal expansion properties, so if you can't get recommendations from the Filon manufacturer, leave your sample(s) out in direct sun to make sure that the Filon doesn't develop wrinkles, or that the walls aren't going to warp or something... Better yet, build a box with a low-watt light bulb inside and set it outside in the coldest weather (to provide a heat differential between the interior and exterior surfaces), to see if you get any warping, wrinkles, etc...

When we built ours we laid the walls out on a large flat section of concrete floor, and after gluing everything we piled weight on it overnight while the glue set. If I had to do it again, I think I'd try using something like waterbed bladder(s) for the weight, so that the weight would be evenly distributed across the entire area. Of course, you want to have everything ready before you start gluing, since you want the weight on it before the first glue sets up. And fast-setting glue would not be an advantage.

Some other boat-building sites (like Kelsal catamarans, for instance) describe vacuum bagging, where you would 'bag' the whole section with bubble wrap, then hook up a shop vac to pull a vacuum on it while the epoxy sets. I think I have seen this approach mentioned on some of the 'expedition-class' motor home sites, as well. I only wanted to mention it here so that you can investigate it if you want, but I think it would be overkill in this application.

lynnburcher
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:53 am
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Re: idea

Post by lynnburcher » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:08 am

Eric wrote:Hi Guys

I'm thinking of building one myself, a little break from boats.

How about these?

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5985

Eric
Looks like a lot of work for joints no one will ever see, but what do I know...

Eric
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:40 pm

Post by Eric » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:26 pm

Yes, they can be cumbersome to setup for each joint.

Eric

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Dave Grason
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:19 am
Location: Nashville, Tn.

Re: idea

Post by Dave Grason » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:00 am

lynnburcher wrote: Looks like a lot of work for joints no one will ever see, but what do I know...
Well, you have to consider the alternatives and I can only really see two. One would be drilling holes and using dowel pins. When I got to that point on my teardrop camper, I tried this. NOPE, it didn't work well at all. I don't know where I went wrong but the entire cabinet face frame fell apart in my hands. I probably should have used epoxy. But that wasn't the only problem. The other prob was that the frame members were all a little different height after the glue up causing me to have to try and level everything with a belt sander. NOPE, that didn't work well either. I finally scrapped the whole thing and I haven't gotten back to it yet.

The 2nd alternative would be to use a biscuit cutter. I've used these before but they were borrowed. These worked REALLY well but you have to buy the cutter and a supply of biscuits. If you're not going to use them on a regular basis, that's quite a bit of coin to lay out.

So your pocket jig starts looking better and better. Keep us aprised as to how it works out. I for one am curious.
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

zepe
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:38 am

Post by zepe » Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:55 am

The Kreg Joint is a good one, but I would also glue the joints using a good waterproof glue. This is the technique I'll be using when I start my trailer this winter. I also plan to use coated deck screws instead of nails. I don't like corrugated fasteners.

z
PTL

Monte48
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:39 pm
Location: Madison Wisconsin

Post by Monte48 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:45 pm

Hi guys just started my camper project today. am building the Apaculco. I am using the Kreg pocket hole kit, i works pretty slick, Have both walls cut and 90% complete just need a few opening sizes. Just thought i would give my .02 worth.

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leakcheck
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:01 pm
Location: Lander Wyoming

Post by leakcheck » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:52 am

Monte...We LOVE pictures...so when you get a chance could you please post a few for us ???

Thanks

Steve

Smith Brother
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: INDY,IN USA

Post by Smith Brother » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:56 pm

leakcheck, MAYBE, just MAYBE they are building like you and I, INVISIBLE units. Cameras don't work on them either. :wink:

Dale in Indy

Monte48
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:39 pm
Location: Madison Wisconsin

Post by Monte48 » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:35 pm

how do i go about getting pics on here, no real smart with computers. any help would be helpful. i have a few pics that i would love to make visible.

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Dave Grason
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:19 am
Location: Nashville, Tn.

Post by Dave Grason » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:55 am

You'll need to find a photo hosting website and post your pictures there. Then, when you can view your photos, you'll want to click on any photo that you want here. When it expands, copy the URL.

Next come here and click on the "Img" button, paste the URL from your photo and click on "Img" again. Try it.
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

Monte48
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:39 pm
Location: Madison Wisconsin

Post by Monte48 » Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:17 pm

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