Jet Zip?

Outboard designs up to 14'

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sproggy
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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby sproggy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:48 am

Thanks for clarifying that, Bill. Numbers are so much clearer than those old-fashioned terms.... I bet my Dad would have known what it meant, though!

Ian

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby Bill Edmundson » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:56 am

Ian

Of coarse, if it's a Baker's dozen there would 156 screws. :lol:

Bill
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sproggy
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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby sproggy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:48 am

Wouldn't that be a baker's gross?

Although I understand there's some disagreement about whether that constitutes 145 or 156....

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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby Bill Edmundson » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:28 am

Or a gross baker.

Bill
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hoodman
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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby hoodman » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:31 am

Ian, I too contemplated the Celerity for a time before committing to the Geronimo. Something I found out after receiving the Geronimo plans is that the line drawing on the website is missing a lot of the details on the actual plans that make it more attractive in my opinion. Such as the toe rail and a few other details. This may be true for the Celerity plans as well. My suggestion to you is that you may want to actually buy the plans for the Celerity and look them over for yourself. Glen-L has a return policy you'll want to check out. My other suggestion is that you may want to take a look at the Nimrod or Overnighter as possible design choices. Even the Cruisette has more of the hull shape that you seem to be interested in. Either of the mini cruisers could be build as runabouts. I am not you and this is going to be your boat but I would not try to modify the frames of any of these designs.

Another thought is that you could really scale down your build to something like a Sissy Do that would give you access to almost any inland waterway. This would give you plenty of water to explore while you contemplate buying a house with a larger shed to build one of the large inboards.

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sproggy
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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby sproggy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:29 pm

Thanks for your comments and suggestions, hoodman.

I have noticed that a few photos of the Geronimo show it with some tumblehome at the transom (e.g. CG Trott's) while others show a degree of flare. Maybe some are standard, others modified?

The inconsistency of information on the Glen-L website is frustrating - for some boats deadrise is quoted, for others not. For some a body plan is provided, for others not. This makes meaningful comparisons difficult with such fundamental information missing. Particularly for less common designs where anecdotal information is harder to come by.

Geln-L's returns policy is, I understand, 14 days. Given that plans would take that long to arrive here in the UK I need to make my choice carefully otherwise I'll blow a large part of the budget on plans alone!

Nimrod - I had looked at this design but the deadrise is too little (closer to that of the Zip from appearances) and I fear it wouldn't handle rougher water well enough. Unless someone can tell me otherwise.

Overnighter - now this is a real contender. I simply hadn't looked at it. Possibly due to the name or the 'mini cruiser' tag line. However it's a good looking hull, the undercover 'cabin' is a huge plus for family use (could make the difference between wife agreeing to go out and not) and Owe Pedersen's example shows it more in the sort of style that I'd like to build. No information about deadrise, though, and no body plan on the website. i can't find any photos showing the hull shape below the waterline. That deal-breaker aside it could be top of the list. Better looking that the Celerity by some margin to my eyes.

Cruisette - decent hull shape above the waterline but way too flat below it based upon the photos I've found.

I would prefer not to have to modify plans for my first build - although modifying above the chine is low risk it is still a risk as well as an added complication. So finding a plan to use as-is would be better, as you say. Deck modifications are easy by comparison.

Sissy Do - not sure whether you were joking about this one! But I'm not doing this because I want to build a boat. I'm doing it because I want to build a boat that I want. Spending time and money on something that I have no enthusiasm for building or using (and I wouldn't have any for that boat) is not on the cards. There's little to no chance of us moving in the foreseeable future so I need to build the best boat (that i want) with what I have.

So, someone, please show me the hull form of the Overnighter!!! I could just email Glen-L, I guess. But a picture is worth a thousand words, as they say.

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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby Bill Edmundson » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:13 pm

Ian

Gayle can certainly overcome the return policy.

I was involved in major design for many years. I doubt, over time, that my work product didn't changed a lot.

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Mr Hot Rod
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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby Mr Hot Rod » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:48 am

sproggy wrote:So, someone, please show me the hull form of the Overnighter!!! I could just email Glen-L, I guess. But a picture is worth a
thousand words, as they say.

This photo might help :


More info on this thread :


You can also try a Google site search e.g. search term : 'site=glen-l.com overniter'

Hope this helps !

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Last edited by Mr Hot Rod on Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sproggy
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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby sproggy » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:08 am

That's really helpful, Paul - thank you. You have no idea how many hours I've spent Googling this and I'd even read that thread (I thought) but missed the drawing!

By my calculations that makes the deadrise at the transom 5.8 degrees - not really enough to handle rougher water to my mind. The Celerity I calculate (roughly, based upon measurements taken off a small scale drawing of the sections) to be around 12.5 degrees which I think is where I need to be, give or take, for coastal and estuary use.

On this basis it looks as if I'll be building a runabout based upon the Celerity hull. At least that decision is taken at last! Unless someone disagrees with my calculations/reasoning :?

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sproggy
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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby sproggy » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:15 am

sproggy wrote:The Celerity I calculate (roughly, based upon measurements taken off a small scale drawing of the sections) to be around 12.5 degrees


Or I could have just re-read the info page and seen that it has 16 degrees minimum....

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sproggy
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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby sproggy » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:22 am

So I made my mind up - order the Celerity plans and the Overniter plans. Learn how to use DelftShip, transfer the Celerity hull into DelftShip, modify it with a slightly raised bow profile and forward cubby (like the Overniter), add some tumblehome towards the transom and a runabout-style curved/sloping sheer profile, use DelftShip to verify that the resulting hull is still developable, alter it accordingly if that's not the case, output the results as DXF files and get them plotted full size and then.......

.......and then I thought......what you're probably all thinking! While I do have the ability to do the above, do I really want to? To spend free time that I have little enough of learning software, re-designing a boat into something completely different before I can even start building it?

And then I thought about happy family holidays when I was a teenager, when 4 or 5 of us (including my grandmother in her 80s!) would potter about the Salcombe estuary (and outside it on occasion) in a little 14' sailing dinghy with precious little freeboard and a 4hp Johnson outboard clamped on the back...... And realised that all I really need is a little bit more freeboard than a Zip and a willingness to go at a speed that suits the conditions. Sometimes that'll be fast, sometimes it won't. I can live with that.

So no Zip. No jet drive. No Celerity. Just a Nimrod (right size, right freeboard) with a runabout style deck layout and a decent size outboard to push it around. I think that's the right compromise - a boat that I can use, can build, and can enjoy doing both those things. So thanks for the advice and comments, especially from Matt who suggested the Nimrod in the first place.

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Mr Hot Rod
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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby Mr Hot Rod » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:20 am

The Nimrod is a good choice.

Have you considered a Cat ? This a great hull for rough water. With a beam of 7'-11" you might have to remodel the front of the garage ...


Here's a list of inboard suppliers if you choose to go inboard :


Here's a link to a Glen-L Mist Miss diesel Jet build thread :


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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby hoodman » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:58 am

It helps to take a step back and get a fresh perspective. You'll be building a proven design. I don't think there is any doubt that these hulls can take the abuse, given that you don't push the limits. You will give up due to the conditions before your boat does. Keep a radio on board and monitor the weather and I think you'll be fine.

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sproggy
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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby sproggy » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:04 pm

Mr Hot Rod wrote:The Nimrod is a good choice.

Have you considered a Cat ?


In a word, no! I want a classic runabout - that is the number one thing on my list. A catamaran is a fundamental style departure from that main goal. The Nimrod is an acceptable compromise of function/style, a catamaran a compromise way too far.

Inboard is out of the question too, partly because my build area limits me to around 15' length and inboards of the style I want need longer hulls, partly because of cost. I don't want a diesel and we don't have access over here to (a) cheap V8s or (b) marinising kits for petrol (gas) engines. I can pick up a half decent outboard for around £1k but an inboard plus gearbox plus drive system is mega money - more than the rest of the boat will cost. So thanks for the links but my mind is made up - Nimrod, runabout style deck/seat arrangement and as powerful a short-shaft motor as I can find (not many over 50hp). I prefer not to go for a long-shaft motor due to the raised CG and higher profile from an aesthetic point of view but I may find I have little option on that front.

Ordering the plans tomorrow. Found a supplier today for timber (solid and ply), West System epoxy products, silicone bronze screws/nails and Epifanes coatings. I feel I've made progress - choosing a design is a major step!

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gap998
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Re: Jet Zip?

Postby gap998 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:15 pm

Hello Ian,

I'm a bit behind on the new posts, but just to throw some other ideas into the mix, the Overniter is what I'm planning for my second build... but with some heavy mods: -

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=27168&p=167479&hilit=Super+Overniter#p167479

While there is more freeboard and more V at the stem, the Overniter still has a fairly flat deadrise at the stern though.
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"


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