Zip Fuel Tank placement

Outboard designs up to 14'

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tgauthier
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Location: Pontiac, Michigan
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Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by tgauthier » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:09 am

Hi Guys,

I have not posted in a while because I have not made much progress on my Zip. Summer is here and I have been flying a lot. I have been stuck a little, trying to decide where and how to place my fuel tank.

I have a 12 gal tank and was wondering if I needed more room for the filler neck. It looks like the molded filler neck would be flush with the finished deck if I leave it in its current position. I can lower it about 1 1/2 inches and it would rest directly on the floor battens.

My question to the group would be:

Should I have or need a flexable connector between the molded plastic neck on the fuel tank and fuel cap that is mounted on the deck?

You can see photos and descriptions of my Zip build at:

http://tedsbuild.blogspot.com

Thanks,

Ted Gauthier
Pontiac, Michigan
p.s. I am planning on flying my RV-6 to the gathering and visiting for the day. I don't have reservations for an overnight stay so I will just make a day of it if the weather cooperates.
Fuel Tank placement.jpg
Fuel Tank placement.jpg (27.34 KiB) Viewed 1987 times
framing1.jpg
framing1.jpg (26.76 KiB) Viewed 1987 times
Zip Ash Floor.JPG
Zip Ash Floor.JPG (28.35 KiB) Viewed 1987 times

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jamundsen
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Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by jamundsen » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:40 am

I cant believe your shop is that clean. Your boat looks great. See you at G4. Quite a number that are attending are pilots.
John Amundsen
Monte Carlo
Lakeland,Fl

Work tends to get in the way of boat building

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Roberta
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Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by Roberta » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:53 am

I know the quandry. I've decided to make my Zip a single cockpit and put the tanks under a deck hatch where the rear cockpit would have been. I have two 6 gallon tanks and wanted to keep the boat balanced. Putting the motor well in would make locating them difficult since I would need to get at them to get them out. I like the portable tanks because they are easier to clean out and get water out. Less plumbing to deal with.

Nice boat and shop.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

upspirate

Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by upspirate » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:36 am

I would use a section of hose to couple.

Oyster
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Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by Oyster » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:49 am

Roberta Hegy wrote:I know the quandry. I've decided to make my Zip a single cockpit and put the tanks under a deck hatch where the rear cockpit would have been. I have two 6 gallon tanks and wanted to keep the boat balanced. Putting the motor well in would make locating them difficult since I would need to get at them to get them out. I like the portable tanks because they are easier to clean out and get water out. Less plumbing to deal with.

Nice boat and shop.

Roberta
I don't know your measurements. But I also use two six gallon tanks even though I really do not need that much fuel as a rule. I use simple quick disconnects and alternative the draw each time out. We have some serious issues with the ethanol so I go this route and have not had any problems. This requires 28 plus a couple of hairs inches inside. Of course you can hide the hose by installing the hose through any and all side supports if you have any for the splash well if you have them. I left a bit of the face trim at the bottom cutout which is a safety from sliding out but have never had any problems since I use a very small piece of the non skid rubber matt under them and just pick up the tank and slide it over the obstacle.
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Roberta
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Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by Roberta » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:26 pm

Hi Oyster,

My plan is to use just one fuel line with a primer bulb. I have a 7 footer that should reach from the tank location (which will be where the rear seats would have been) through the bulkhead at the front of the motor well, to the engine. The primer bulb will be located on the end of the hose in the tank compartment and the hose will go through a water tight (hopefully) grommet in the motorwell. I'm planning on setting the tanks in a recess in the floor and secure with a bungy. Probably will line the recess with a fuel resistant mat of some kind. I am planning on vents and possibly a blower. There shouldn't be an ignition source, this being an outboard.

I had originally thought about putting the tank(s) in the open motor bay by the transom, but decided the motor well would be a good idea to help prevent getting swamped.

I've always wanted a mahogany barrel back. I guess I'm doing my best to emulate that.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

Oyster
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Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by Oyster » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:31 pm

If you enclose your tank or tanks, make sure you use under the deck tanks in lieu of the portable ones. I have my ball at the engine since I am old. But I don't recall ever pumping the ball as a rule either with the disconnects. ALso if you use an enclosed tank, spend the extra money and get the right fuel line that is rated for under the deck arrangments. Swamping? Well if you subscribe to a closed well, make sure you refigure your distance between the sides unless you create a recess for your steering arm for hardover starboard.

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Roberta
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Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by Roberta » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:49 pm

I have refigured the well width to 32 inches wide and 24 inches deep per the Mercury diagrams and will be using the tilt pivot to anchor the steering cable.

Curious, why would you discourage using the portable tanks in a compartment? I would rather not use a permanently mounted tank, especially a plastic one. I had an amphibian airplane that had a plastic tank that was impossible to drain properly and would accumulate a nasty residue in it that needed to be cleaned out on occasion. And because of the nature of the plastic used, it leeched fumes out into the cockpit. At least these portables can be easily flushed out.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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billy c
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Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by billy c » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:17 pm

Roberta Hegy wrote: Curious, why would you discourage using the portable tanks in a compartment?
Roberta
a properly installed permanent tank in a compartment will provide for venting fumes over the side of the boat.
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

Oyster
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Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by Oyster » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:26 pm

Portable tanks self vent. Gasoline vapors are heavier than air. With portable tanks situated in recessed compartments down low and especially when the tanks are full, you can even get some spillage from expansion and will run into the bilge area along with vapors that sink down into any bilge area. Forget about any fires you get an ugly oil sludge residue especially with a two stroke engine which makes it worse with the oil blend. Inside a boat and down low gas fumes gets caught inside. Running sometimes in some of the hulls also creates a vacumn affect along the sides of the hull and any fumes will get stuck too.

If you have any wiring that is not ignition protected or even a bilge pump which in most cases are not spark proof configured, and the gas fumes are down low, you have a high probability of fire or an explosion especially if the pump kicks on.


I must add too that I understand the issues of gunk. But this is also minimized to a non issue by using an addictive. There is a great product called Sea Foam that we use along with injector cleaner for older gas thats not stale but has been sitting a month or so.

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Roberta
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Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by Roberta » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:00 pm

OK!!! I'm convinced. I guess I will be looking for a fuel tank to put down in there.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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billy c
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Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by billy c » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:05 pm

well as long as we are here...
permanent installations of polyethylene tanks themselves in enclosed compartments also have to be vented as a permeation of vapors occurs and must have a method to remove the fumes.
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

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Roberta
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Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by Roberta » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:18 pm

I think I will go with an aluminum tank.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

Oyster
Posts: 4414
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by Oyster » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:23 pm

Should I have or need a flexable connector between the molded plastic neck on the fuel tank and fuel cap that is mounted on the deck?
I see you are using the Moeuller [sp] tank. There is specially designed fuel hose, some wire reinforced and some corded rubber that is normally used. With closed mounted necks, that is you have marginal to no distance between the outlet neck and the filler neck, its also possible that you will need an additional length of the vented hose so that you have enough reserve length for expansion and purging the tank when filling so that you only get air instead of gas.

I normally make sure that I run the vent line foward so that you do not get any airlock when on plane and the tank is filled and overflow with the boat angle. I also add a couple of feet and loop it horizontal and secure it with a large plastic pipe strap or a tywarp with the hole at the end using fastener to any overhead decking.

The let the line drop down a bit to the overboard vent. If you vent to the side of the hull, make sure you use the vent that has a cover across the vent so that water will not be forced back into the tank. If you need a shot of the vent, let me know.

upspirate

Re: Zip Fuel Tank placement

Post by upspirate » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:27 pm

You can also make it so the permanent tank is not too hard to remove to clean out the gunk....if you place it where you were going to have the portables

Also, I've run into situations where I ran out of fuel in one tank,and had to change the hose over to the other tank(difficult to get to in that boat) , in a channel with other boat traffic....that boat now has a larger,18 gallon portable tank semi-permanently installed

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