Andy's Zip build

Outboard designs up to 14'

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mrintense
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by mrintense » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:36 pm

Looking good Andy. I'm sure this boat will be a real beaut when she's finished.
Carl
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jprice
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by jprice » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:10 am

I like the idea of putting the tank in the bow, and have been thinking about doing that myself.
I'm wondering, are there any disadvantages to having the tank 10'-12' from the engine? Do you need an extra fuel pump or anything like that?
Also wondering if there would be any trim or balance issues as the fuel gets used and the bow gets lighter.

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Roberta
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by Roberta » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:43 am

The balance issues will pop up regardless of where you place the tank. If you have motor trim or trim tabs, most conditions can be countered. I find having the tank in the middle creates some issues with having pax in the aft seat. I hope to counter those with Lenco trim tabs. I do not have trim on my old Merc 500, other than the manual tilt pin. Passenger comfort can be affected somewhat with the center mounted tank, but that depends on the size of the tank. Putting it up front can also interfere with front passenger comfort. Always best to trial fit the seating and simulate conditions and see what best suites your needs.

The distance from the motor can be a problem if your fuel pump is weak, especially during lengthy idles. The rise of the bow on plane generally will offset some distance as the lift of the fuel is reduced by the bow coming up slightly on plane. Length, bends, height and hose size, as well as filters, can all affect the pressure in a fuel system.

Roberta :D
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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Andy Garrett
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by Andy Garrett » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:26 am

As you see in my earlier pics, my tank is situated to allow unicumbered leg room for front seat occupants. I've mocked this up and it works well.

Fill cap location is the challenge at hand, but I'm working it out.

I'll deal with system pressure if it winds up being an issue.

Like Roberta, I'm electing for trim tabs, but of a simpler sort. I'm going with Smart Tabs wich are always in the deployed position until 40lbs of pressure is applied. Then they go level with the bottom of the hull. They get you on plane faster, prevent 'chine walking', increase visability under acceleration, and require no manual control--they do their thing automatically with no complex wiring or hydraulics. I've not read any reviews here on the forums, but I'm gonna try them out.
Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

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Andy Garrett
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by Andy Garrett » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:49 pm

Holy crap! Painting the interior is HARD WORK!

The Benjamin Moore's Polyamide epoxy paint is nice and thick. That alone is a double edged sword though. It makes it coat well, but it doesn't penetrate as easily as some paints. In any case, it's waaaaaaay better than encapsulating then having to scrub the blush out of every crevice before painting. the best part was that my batch (a bit less than a gallon) was still easily workable 5 hours into the job.

I'll be painting at least one more time when the rest of the interior construction is in. I'll take that opportunity to put a secong coat in areas that will show when finished.

I'm just wondering how the rest of you attacked protecting the underside of your sub-deck. Do I paint it before I install it?
Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

fergal butler
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by fergal butler » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:12 am

Looking good Andy, I don't want to upset things but I would be a bit worried about the weight of 13 gallons of fuel and the strain it would put on the bow or down through the stem as you hit some waves, even in my boat I get a bit nervous from the bang when coming down off a wave or wake and with about 80 pounds of fuel coming to a sudden stop I'd say the forces would be very hard on the hull that far forward as any downward pressure would be forcing it apart :shock: I may be thinking too much into this but better to be 100% sure now than later that this is the best way to go.
Anyone one else have any thoughts on this.

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Wood Nut
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by Wood Nut » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:30 am

Andy,
Coming along nicely.

I was thinking the same thing about the sub deck, just a lot farther from that point then you.
Charlie K.
Building a Flying Saucer

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Andy Garrett
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by Andy Garrett » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:00 am

Fergal, Since I began this build, I was concerned that the stem/keel junction was the most vulnerable area of the hull. Now, this is just from my own study of my paticular boat, and I'm certain that I'm wrong, but I took steps to 'beef it up' I'll post some pics of exactly what I did sometime later today.

The other thing to remember, is that I selected the 13gal tank for its shape, which allowed me to go as far forward as possible, leaving plenty of leg room. I will seldom fill to more than half that capacity, so weight shouldn't be too troublesome.

I appreciate the thoughts.

Still wonder about the underside of the deck though.
Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

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vupilot
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by vupilot » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:24 am

I just encapsulated the underside of the subdeck. The paint will probably make it reflect light so you can see under there better.

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Andy Garrett
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by Andy Garrett » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:05 pm

Who would have thought that a motorwell would take all day... Jeez...
Fergal, I also included a pic of my stem/keel junction in its heavily reinforced condition.

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You may notice that the well is very shallow. The mounting brackets on my motor only extend down about 3.75". My depth is 4.47". I also decided to go wider than originally conceived, because I wanted to tie it to the outer batten (the inner was far too narrow).

The plans call for well 33" wide by 22" deep. Mine is 30.25" wide and 18.75" deep. Even this brings it all the way to the seat back. There will be no decking there.

I'm not certain where I will run my lines yet. The common wisdom on long-shaft is to go above the deck, and my well sides are pretty short, but given the extra width, I'll consider the option of going through the side. I reckon I'll just go wild with a hole saw when the time comes.
Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

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Andy Garrett
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by Andy Garrett » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:16 pm

A word on the epoxy paint...

When I finished painting yesterday, I new I would need a second coat, as with every paint I've ever used. You can see this from the pics. However, In the morning light today, the gloss (all that is available according to my local dealer) is BLINDING!

This little problem is going to cause usability and enjoyment issues with this boat.

The wood is encapsulated, so I may elect to make the second coat something a bit flatter--semi-gloss at most. I think something I could spray would be easiest. I know there is some quality stuff made for plastics out there, Fusion I think it is. I may try something like that if I can get it flat.

The good news is that there is no blush from the first coat of epoxy paint. It also cures flexible if the residue in the bucket is any indicator. Thumbnail tests confirm this. That should make it easy for a qualty top coat to bond.

I'll look at sprayable porch paints too.
Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

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Andy Garrett
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by Andy Garrett » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:14 am

Got some more painting done.
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Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

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Andy Garrett
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by Andy Garrett » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:59 pm

Worked out the puzzle of the seating today. Measure, check, measure, check again..., cut, check, mock up, take down, glue, screw...

I'm happy with it. I'ts solid and the height and angles are good.

I even got my wife to sit in it. The whole thing seems real to her now. It's not just that thing in the garage. It's a boat--our boat.
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Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by Bill Edmundson » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:47 am

Andy

According to the guy on the TV restoration show, a table spoon per gallon of corn starch will flatten the gloss of any paint. I haven't done it myself. But, you might want to research it.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

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Andy Garrett
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Re: Andy's Zip build

Post by Andy Garrett » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:59 am

Bill,

I called Benjamin Moore and asked them about the addition of cornstarch. They put me on hold while they kicked it around the room for a while, then told me that talc or baby powder might be a better choice. They though mildew or mold might be an issue in a boat with the cornstarch.

I'll do some tests with a small amount, then re-coat all the surfaces which will be visible by the occupants. Thanks for the tip!

In other news, the back seat is almost done. Time to get on the steering, motor, and mechanical stuff before decking.
Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

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