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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:44 pm
Posts: 661
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Question:

My instructions which came with my Zip plans explain that standard lumber yard sizes are to be used with exception to width. With this in mind, I purchased a 16' length of awesome 1" x 6" S4S mahogany to rip into two chine logs. However, as I was cutting the notches in my frame to receive the chine, I realized that this was actually a full inch deep while my chine is actually 3/4" thick due to the finishing.

Can I use this material for my chine as the instructions suggest, or do I need a chine that is 1" net thickness?

I also screwed up my transom and will need to start over there... :roll:

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Andy Garrett

"When all else fails, follow the instructions." -Dad


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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:31 am 
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Location: Dayton, Ohio
I'm building the Malahini, so take that as you may... I'm sure other Zip builders will chime in soon.

Personally, I chose to go the full depth of the notches. I'm thinking that it may not have been completely necessary, as when the plans say 1" it really means 7/8 or 3/4 finished. But, I didn't regret going the full depth either, as it really doesn't add that much weight, and especially on the sheers, most of that material gets faired away anyway. (In fact you will be surprised just how little there is left after fairing at the bow).

Personally, I found it much easier to do the chines and sheers in 2 laminations. If you went this route, you could simply purchase another board and glue up a secondary lamination to make up the thickness you need.

I take it your notches are already cut. If this is the case, you would need to build back up with epoxy & filler, or epoxied blocks to get back to your 3/4" you have now. And also, don't forget you will need to fair the notches also to accept the gentle curve from one frame member to the next, so this will angle the notch as well.

Hope there were some nuggets in that sphiel...

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
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Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta
I had my lumber pre-planed down to 7/8" thickness, which turned out just fine for everything so far. I believe you can get down to 3/4" thickness and still be absolutely fine... in fact it should bend a bit easier. Just remember to work the chine from the stem backwards to the aft... trying to bend it the other way seems to increase stress and can snap it as I discovered.

I did not use laminations for my chine, however I certainly understand why some builders opt for that method. Laminating the sheer is pretty much a 'must' on the Malahini anyway, so you will need a few dozen clamps regardless.

You don't have to use full 1" stock. If you scale the plans you will see they are likely showing the lumber thickness at 7/8". I wouldn't go thinner than 3/4"... mostly because you are going to run a lot of screws into the material why you apply the plywood and you don't want them to be too close to the edge.

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Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build


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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:36 am
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Location: Indy
Andy,
My plans show the notches at 3/4" actual size? Youll need to make sure you have enough material remaining after fairing you may not starting with 3/4" pieces. My receipt says I bought four 1/2x2 netx16' pieces for my chines and obviously this was done in laminations of two per side. I do remember cutting my notches a 1/8" deeper so I wouldnt have so much to fair off.
I started with four 5/8x1-1/4 pieces for the sheer.

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:42 pm 
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Location: Wichita, Kansas
Chris, as I take a second look, I see that many of the chine/batten notches are 3/4 on one side and almost an inch on others. Instinctively, I cut 1 x 2 notches for the deck battens at frame #5 1/2.

It's an easy fix. I can block those back to 3/4" and adjust my future notching to use my 3/4" finished lumber.

I will likely laminate a supporting piece to the inside of the chine between 5 1/2 and the stem after everything cures.

I may approach the sheer with the same strategies as I will likely use the same type of lumber in 16' lengths. We'll see how that goes.

Thanks guys.

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Andy Garrett

"When all else fails, follow the instructions." -Dad


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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:21 pm
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Location: tarpon springs fl
A little late for you Andy,but for anyone else that hasn't got there yet.....I cut my notches to fit the size lumber I have.

For example,on my skiff,I waited til I could measure the chines,shears,battens& risers because to make maximum use of the raw lumber we had to cut the pieces just a little bit smaller than specified.

The notches would have been the wrong size(oversize) so I cut them to the actual size of the pieces.

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Boat building can best be defined as an endless series of
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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:51 pm 
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Location: Wichita, Kansas
In other news... I got two emails from Houston Hardwoods today.

Working on it- making progress-learning a lot-bear with me-should have solution today.
Guy

and later...

Andrew-
After researching all of the possible reasons for heavier panels it is simply a case of too many Keruing veneers used to make a sheet up.
Here is our spec sheet for Hydrotek weights - http://www.wolstenholme.com/resource-center/

Our supplier, Wolstenholme, has graciously agreed to replace the two sheets at no cost to you or I. With that news I, and I am sure they, would appreciate acknowleging their support in your forums. As the spec sheet above indicates a more consistant weight of the 6mm sheets, they said the decision to supply two new sheets was a "no brainer". Thank you for the opportunity (and the time to do it) to run through the apprpriate channels required for replacement panels.

I will ship two new sheets to the same address after getting an OK from you.


Guy Pike
Houston Hardwoods, Inc.
Ph. 713-686-6176
Fx. 713-686-3217
Cell. 713-927-7429
guyp@houstonhardwoods.com


It looks as if satisfaction will be achieved. Good for me AND them!

A heartfelt thanks for all of you who helped me with this.

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Andy Garrett

"When all else fails, follow the instructions." -Dad


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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
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Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta
Great news!

I would have been surprise if they didn't step up to the plate for you after your last email. I am sure you feel better knowing that you will have the right materials and not have to mess around with it.

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Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build


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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:23 pm
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Location: East Troy, Wisconsin
Great news Andy!!

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Built Zip "Oliver IV" and Super Spartan "Jimmy 70"


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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 3:07 am
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Location: Spring TX
Kewl to know... That dang place is right around the corner from me! lol sweet ta know!!!! Good ta see they are working with you but only after you had to almost demand it.....


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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:00 pm
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Location: Puyallup, WA
That is great! Good for them for finally stepping up. Now you can build without that in the back of your mind.

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Jeremy

Hope is NOT a plan.


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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:45 am
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Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
I'm glad this is working out!

There was added pressure. Oyster made contact also. He brought up our collective buying power.

I don't want this to be a union per se. But, if there is a way the group can help... bring it up.

Bill

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 12:47 pm
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Location: Winter Haven, Fl
good news

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Winter Haven, FL

Maybe it will be done by G6 and maybe not.


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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:21 pm
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Location: tarpon springs fl
Bill Edmundson wrote:
I'm glad this is working out!

There was added pressure. Oyster made contact also. He brought up our collective buying power.

I don't want this to be a union per se. But, if there is a way the group can help... bring it up.

Bill


Y'all can send the dues to me or Oyster if you like!! :wink: 8)

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Boat building can best be defined as an endless series of
tragedies obscured by the occasional miracle, followed by a good bottle of beer.

Don't Dream Your Life, Live Your Dream


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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Zip build
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:03 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:33 am
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Location: Owasso, Oklahoma
Great Andy,

I sent Tom a note as well...heck, I've refered lots of people to them. I'm really glad it worked out.

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I told my wife we needed a three-car garage for my projects...she told me to ask her for permission next time before I buy a house.
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