Curious about a particular Zip...

Outboard designs up to 14'

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Andy Garrett
Posts: 1361
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:44 pm
Location: Nampa, Idaho

Curious about a particular Zip...

Post by Andy Garrett »

When I first got involved with Glen-L, I read everything I could find in the old webletters that had anything to do with where I wanted to take this adventure. I remember reading a story about Paul Verne's build experience. It didn't strike me as odd at the time, but looking at it again recently, it certainly does.

I'm wondering if Paul is here on the forums or if anyone knows him. I'd like to see how his Zip is holding up. The reason I'm curious is because he made what I consider to be very brave choices in his boat. Now, I certainly don't wish to impugn Mr. Verne in any way, but I think that his build could offer some excellent education value to the forums; particularly if it is still going strong. It might call into question some prevailing wisdom around here.

You see, Paul built his Zip using red oak (from lowes) for his frames. He used yellow pine; a soft wood (your average 2x4 in yellow pine), for the keel, chines, sheers, and battens. He did not use fiberglass at all. He built his boat as a utility with no motor well. That means that his 40hp motor is hanging off of an unreinforced transom made of red oak which is screwed and glued to soft wood sheers and chines. He uses this vessel in coastal waterways at a claimed speed of 40mph (probably a bit harsher environment than your average freshwater lake).

Again, this was not Mr. Verne's first build, and I won't say anything negative about the wisdom in his choices. I'm just curious how the boat is doing? If it is going strong, I think it says something about the assumed disparity between what are considered excellent building materials and what many of us would never consider using due to inherent weakness because of fastening holding ability, etc.

Pauls story: http://www.glen-l.com/weblettr/weblette ... 21.html#XX
Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

Retroman
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:08 am
Location: Great South Bay, Long Island, NY. Building a Zip/Flying Saucer

Re: Curious about a particular Zip...

Post by Retroman »

i was curious about pauls build myself. Especially the lack of fiberglass, Im still amazed at times, that my hull is only 1/4 " plywood, with a layer of 7 oz fiberglass cloth.
RetroMan
Built A Zip/Flying Saucer. I do my boating on South Oyster Bay, Long Island, NY
Documenting my build on YouTube @ http://www.youtube.com/SuperUnknownMC

upspirate

Re: Curious about a particular Zip...

Post by upspirate »

My first build in 1973 I used pine,A-B exterior fir plywood and some redwood for coamings as my Dad and I didn't know you could order the called for wood....we just thought that it wasn't available here at that time.

I used resourcinal (SP) glue,galvanized screws, bronze boat nails, and epoxy marine paint from Sears.

I ran that boat hard for about 5 years, including a glancing blow against a sea wall at about 20MPH :oops:

The only damage from the sea wall was the first layer of ply was gauged,and I patched that with polyester and filler.The fir ply ended up checking, and it got covered with glass eventually.

The next 2 owners used the boat for about 5 more years that I know off before I lost track of it.
scan0006.jpg
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That said, now that I've used epoxy and cloth,okume plywood,mahogany,and sapelle,I would use the right stuff as it is easier to work with,and won't check like the old fir with no glass.

Oyster
Posts: 4440
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Curious about a particular Zip...

Post by Oyster »

This is a local sailboat project that I recently replaced pine with honduras mahogany for the transom and number one5/4 PT pine thats avaliable for decking for the new keel and skeg. I hand picked the pine so that I could create quarter sawn lumber in the new parts that used the pine. This reduced movement and will normally reduce the issues of the pine moving and dampness sitting in the grains.
The results are as shown from five years of sitting on a trailer with about a dozen trips top.. Yellow pine selected randomly and used as a keel, skeg and transom...You pay your money and take your chances with yellow pine off the shelf these days. New work to follow, but if you look at the new transom the selected pine that was used in the bottom board shows the tighter grain pattern thats created with cutting lumber from the sides of flat sawn lumber thats normally flat sawn with the swirls at the ends being shaped like a half moon.
Attachments
inner keel rotten.JPG
skeg rotten.JPG
DSC00943.JPG

Oyster
Posts: 4440
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Curious about a particular Zip...

Post by Oyster »

This shows the finished pine thats located at the bottom of the transom. If you click on the photo and take a closer look inside the boat, you will see a flat sawn plank thats not favorable for much of anything in even small boats unless you cut it up into small bits and pieces. Buy the widest solid flat sawn lumber if thats all you can get and cut your own selected quarter sawn and vertical grain lumber at peanuts on the dollar from buying selected sawn timber.
DSC00974.JPG
This is what you will get when selecting and cutting off the sides of most wider boards like the 2x10s or greater for an example. While this is the 5/4 stock, you can create this with the 2x stock lumber.
five quarter keel stock.JPG
This shows how you can select wood for framing which will give you the most favorable quarter sawn grain pattern from the center section of what is known as the heart. On the left side you can actually see what amounts to vertical grain lumber which is actually a weak grain when you use any fasteners into the open grain direction. So when you use that section with the grain pattern make sure you run the fasteners in the flat side of any and all framing that gets cut and looks like that example. While this board is young plantation grown timber and quite small in girth when it was cut, you can still minimize your problems when using yellow pine off the shelf these days by properly sorting thru the stacks
off the heart.JPG

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