Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Outboard designs up to 14'

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Barra
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Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Barra » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:23 am

Hi Guys,

Slowly getting there with the Zip. 3 frames and the stem glued up and now starting on the transom. Have a couple of questions that I hope you could help me with:
1) Made a bit of a mess with thickened epoxy between the gussets on my frame. I should have taped this area off but, well, didn't I guess... Any recommendations for cleaning it up? Or will it not be too obvious when the boat's done? I guess I'm trying to work out how far to go trying to get things perfect... Pic:
IMG_0564.JPG

2) When I go to attach the ply to the frame I will tape off as much as possible to prevent excess glue going everywhere and will clean up with acetone where necessary, but what about with the last panel? there won't be any access? I'm trying to avoid a lot of clean up after the flip.
3) I'm building outside so was thinking about encapsulating all the frame prior to attaching to the jig. Will still need to cut for the battens (planing to do this in situ). Can you see any problems with this? It will be undercover and will have a tarp over it when I'm not working on it but still..
4) I want to leave the interior clear. Will it still need varnish to protect or just the epoxy? I haven't seen in anyones build diaries about this step..

Thanks for any advice. I've been reading and re-reading the build diaries on here whenever I get a chance. All such an inspiration!

Cheers

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Roberta
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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Roberta » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:17 am

That excess glue will be difficult to remove. Possibly scrape as much as you can with a chisel. Use a thickened epoxy from Glen L that is a little more transparent when cured will help. Then your encapsulation coats will hide it.

You want to make sure joints aren't starved so you need to make sure to use enough adhesive. Some cleanup will be inevitable.

You can pre encapsulate the frames, but I would leave the areas that will be bonded to other parts uncoated. You get a better chemical bond that way. If you coat the bonding areas, you will need to scuff up the epoxy prior to glueing any joints. This will only give you a mechanical bond, not as good as the chemical bond.

You need to topcoat any areas exposed to the sun with a UV protecting top coat or the epoxy will degrade over time.

Roberta :D
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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tgauthier
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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby tgauthier » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:19 am

I would not worry to much about the epoxy drips between the gussets, most will not show. If it really bothers you, you can paint that area or add more epoxy to smooth it out.

Yep...tape everything you don't want epoxy on and be sure to remove the tape before the epoxy hardens.

I did ecapsulate everything before I put it together the final time...but that is just me.

Yes...you will need to cover the epoxy if exposed to sunlight. You will need some kind of UV protection. Most builders will varnish but some have used clear paint.

Check out my Zip blog and/or Chris Atwoods... I think you will find many of your answers there but keep asking the guys on the forum for help if you have questions.

Ted Gauthier

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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Moeregaard » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:51 am

I'm with Ted and Roberta on this one. In my experience, wiping up epoxy with acetone allows it to penetrate the wood even further and you'll see your sins under your encapsulation later. We found this one out the hard way. As Roberta mentioned, just clean up the excess with a sharp chisel.

On our Zip build, we used half-lap joints on the frames (serious overkill and more work), with 1/4" aircraft ply gussets on both sides (more overkill). We then added filler blocks between the gussets and sanded them flush. The idea here was to deny water a place to collect and to protect the edges of the plywood gussets.

For UV protection, we applied Minwax Helmsman urethane varnish to the entire hull interior after encapsulation. The jury's still out on this stuff, since it runs easily and isn't all that durable. It does dry quickly, though, and is easy to sand. More recently, I've used Cabot's spar varnish on some of our cockpit trim and it goes on very nicely, but takes forever to dry.

-Mark Shipley
A boat is just a wooden box with no right angles.

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Andy Garrett
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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Andy Garrett » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:51 am

I'm actually dealing with this situation right now, as I just flipped my Zip. On my list of things to do, is 'clean up interior'. Specifically, that refers to all the upside down epoxy bumps and stalagtites.

After I do some filleting in a few areas and add 'T-braces' to my keel and all my battens (thanks Mark Shipley), I will go through the whole hull with a palm sander, Dremell, and a chisel to get rid of all those bumps. I expect this to take about an hour or so.

Unlike most, I have not encapsulated my frame or interior hull yet. I'm going to be using a heavy duty two-part epoxy paint to accomplish this before decking. This painting will come in a few stages as the motorwell and seating goes in.

Bottom line, don't sweat it right now. :wink:
Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

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Bill CNC
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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Bill CNC » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:58 am

If it really is bugging you, why not cap off the gusset with .125" (1/8) plywood that has a small vent hole? That would box in your drips making them invisible and will probably make the joint even stronger while giving it air to dry out just in case water get's in there.

On the bright side, ... you know your glue joints aren't starving. :wink:

Bill
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Andy Garrett
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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Andy Garrett » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:27 pm

Actually, I just spent about 45 minutes with a chisel and cleaned everything up pretty good. 10 minutes with a palm sander should get anything that's left.

I was VERY messy, so you shouldn't have it any worse.

Have fun!
Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

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Buckeyesmith
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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Buckeyesmith » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:07 am

The other posters have given you good advice. I'd just like to chime in on Bill's gusset cap idea. That's what I did, not so much to cover up the epoxy but to give the gusset a finished look. Here is a picture early in the build before they were capped:
Image

And here they are with the caps dry fit:

Image

A much better look in my opinion and it covers up those epoxy runs!

Not only will you need to varnish over the epoxy for UV protection, you will find the epoxy finish is extremely slippery when wet, while varnish will give some grip. I found out the hard way when I launched my first boat before varnishing because I was so anxious. Nearly killed myself and the wife. We looked like Keystone Cops trying to get a footing on the wet epoxy. :lol:
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Barra
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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Barra » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:22 am

Thanks everyone for your replies. At this stage I'll just be more careful in future and clean up prior to internal epoxying and varnish.

I like the idea of the gusset caps, looks more finished and will help to keep rubbish out of there.

Glad to hear it didn't take too long to clean up Andy. Worst thing would to spend too much time obsessing out about this instead of getting on with things..

This weekend's plan is to finish the transom (to suit long shaft) and get the building form up. I found the patterns to be a bit small (due to the creases I guess) so have been mainly using the dimensions on the plans but the transom dimensions are vertical not projected so it's been a bit tricky. Also the the build form is going on a paved area thats not exactly flat, so will take a bit more time to set everything up level.

Anyway, hope everyone has a great weekend .
Cheers

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Barra
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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Barra » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:36 pm

Slowly getting there. The frames are on the jig and glueing up the stem now. As the area I'm building on isn't flat (a small paved area) it's a bit tricky trying to make sure everything is aligned. Think it's pretty reasonable but will probably require additional fairing than if I had a nice concreted floor. Anyway, you work with what you've got, just happy to have space at all really.

So a couple of photos:
IMG_0589.JPG

IMG_0587.jpg
The dog helping


Tried to get the stem glued last night but didn't have enough filler (ran out..) so all of the glue leaked out. That will teach me to rush things! Have to try and pull it apart now and redo. :roll:

Trying to use mainly hand tools where possible so as not to annoy the neighbours (or keep our 5 month old son awake!)

Cheers

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Roberta
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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Roberta » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:01 pm

Making good progress. It does not matter if your floor is not level. Just make sure you level the build form by adjusting the height of the longitudinal form members on the uprights. Use some clamps to get everything level, then attach the parts with screws. With a level form you will have a point of reference and datum plane to work from and the boat will be just fine.

Roberta :D
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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Barra
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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Barra » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:36 am

Thanks Roberta. Jig is nice and level and everything has been referenced off that, so 'should' be ok.

Chines are going on with a bit of boiling water and towels. Keeping an eye out for an outboard but they are so expensive here. No hurry though...

Cheers

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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Moeregaard » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:39 am

Before gluing anything I suggest putting down a drop cloth. If you don't, future generations will know exactly what you built there! We didn't do this and the carport has a nice Zip-sized "drip line."

-Mark Shipley
A boat is just a wooden box with no right angles.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Bill Edmundson » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:03 am

Just build another boat facing the otherway to confuse them.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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Roberta
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Re: Barra's Zip Update and Qs

Postby Roberta » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:48 am

All those drip lines and paint spots remind me of all the neat things I built!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Roberta :D :D :D :D
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".


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