Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Outboard designs up to 14'

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gdcarpenter
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Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby gdcarpenter » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:46 pm

Perhaps this may help.

First photo is actually setting up the bow eye, but hopefully you can see how the chine is 'divided' lengthwise with a ridge. Above the ridge the bottom ply sits, below the ridge the side ply sits, this, of course, is after fairing.

Second photo is chine installed and faired, there is a whole lot of twisting going on, as Chubby Checker would say.

The last photo is the chine installed, but not faired yet.You can see how far back from the leading edge of the stem that the front edge of the chine is, to allow for faring of the stem.

You are going to have to clamp, scew, tie, or whatever to get chine firmly in notch on frame 5 1/2 before establishing final 'twist' of chine.
Attachments
DSC02753 (800x600).jpg
DSC02598.JPG
DSC02370.JPG
Last edited by gdcarpenter on Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

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vupilot
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Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby vupilot » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:53 pm

The way I did it was to cut the angle against the stem like you have it now and then glue, screw and clamp to the stem. The next day I came back and put a bar clamp in front of and behind frame 5-1/2 on the chine itself and use the bar end of the clamps for leverage to gently twist the chine into shape and glue screw and clamp to the notch in. A helper would be handy for the entire process of chine and sheer attachment when youre ready to glue.
frame 5-1/2.
I did the chine and sheers in half thickness laminations each though, your mileage may vary.

Pullie
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Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby Pullie » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:10 pm

vupilot wrote:The way I did it was to cut the angle against the stem like you have it now and then glue, screw and clamp to the stem. The next day I came back and put a bar clamp in front of and behind frame 5-1/2 on the chine itself and use the bar end of the clamps for leverage to gently twist the chine into shape and glue screw and clamp to the notch in. A helper would be handy for the entire process of chine and sheer attachment when youre ready to glue.
frame 5-1/2.
I did the chine and sheers in half thickness laminations each though, your mileage may vary.


I did it in one go attaching on the stem last, but I had to add some extra laminations that required more fairing.

When I where to do it again (no if, just when :lol: ) I will go with Vupilot and 2 maybe 3 laminations, that will get a better curved look in my opinion and I think fairing will be more easy.

polarisman14
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Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby polarisman14 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:58 am

Sounds good guys, thanks for the advice. It sounds like it's normal for there to be a good amount of twist from frame 5 1/2 to the stem landing point before fairing, which is what I was most concerned about. Since I am fitting the chine from the transom to the stem versus the other way around, I'll just have to borrow a couple more quick clamps to clamp the chine to 5 1/2 and tie or otherwise fasten it to the stem, and do some more steaming. The next part that I'm a bit nervous about is starting to trim the chine down to properly fit it to the stem but as long as the chine is sitting in the notches properly before I start there's nothing to worry about. Just have to be more careful about the possibility of cracking the chine from then on.

Thanks!

EDIT: GDcarpenter, please correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me looking at your picture that your chines were not set in vertically to the stem. IE the chines themselves were tipped inward on the top edge when viewed from the front. You then cut the chine so that the mating surface was vertical (and consequently parallel) to the stem. Correct? This would take two seconds for me to explain clearer with a video but my phone takes crappy ones and my camera isn't charged--It'd be worth charging the camera and making a video to make sure I am doing it right, though.

polarisman14
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Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby polarisman14 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:47 pm

OK, here we go. Give this a quick watch and let me know 1 or 2, if you wouldn't mind. Greatly appreciated, thanks.

http://s512.photobucket.com/user/polari ... 0.mp4.html

gdcarpenter
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Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby gdcarpenter » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:35 pm

You do NOT need to twist the chine until it's flat side is vertical, that would not be good.

You DO want the outside edge of the final cut on the chine to be essentially parallel to the stem outer edge curvature. Cutting it properly will do that pretty much regardless of the angle of the chine side.

It is best that the chine be sitting properly in it's notch in frame 5 1/2 prior to final cutting/fitting of chine to stem junction.

To determine the angle of the wide flat side of the chine with respect to vertical here is what you need to foresee and consider:

If you take a piece of, say, 1/8" thick material about 2'-3' long and maybe an inch or two wide - or something similarly flexible -

Hold/screw/clamp one end at the rearmost point of the breast hook -with the flat side parallel to the center line of the boat - now, looking from the side, keep that strip verticle (side to side wise) and gently bend it towards the stem - that will represent the shape of your hull at that cross section of the boat.

The instructions say the hull should be convex (on the outside) all along the chine line.

You want the angle of the wide flat side of the chine to be close to parallel to the slope of your 'test' piece where the chine intersects the 'test' piece.

If you look closely in the first photo of my last post (bow eye photo) you might be able to see the 'ridge' running the length of the chine. The bottom hull ply comes down to this line and the side hull ply starts below this ridge. This creates the outward convex shape desired.

So try to picture how the ply will 'wrap around' from sheer to keel/stem and place/twist the wide flat side of your chine accordingly.

Hope this helps. If it's any consolation, in the last photo of my previous post, you can see where I am gluing and clamping additional wood to my sheer to get it to 'fair' properly - doodoo happens! The better you place the chine the less 'plan B' work that is required, but most anything can be fixed.
This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

gdcarpenter
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Location: Raleigh, North Carolina

Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby gdcarpenter » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:46 pm

Perhaps these photos will help you 'picture' how the flat side of the chine works with the hull ply.
Attachments
DSC02829.JPG
DSC02828.JPG
This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

polarisman14
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Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby polarisman14 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:55 pm

Thank you. Exactly the response I was hoping for. I'll clamp the chines back in the notches at 5 1/2 and re-steam it. Then I'll get the notches beveled correctly and prep (but not secure) everything besides the stem. That way it will be ready to receive its final shape. I'll take your advice about taking an extra piece of ply to test bend and see if the chine needs other laminations.

Mojo
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Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby Mojo » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:27 am

Thanks P Man and all contributors. Really helpful thread. I've just finished building my shed and hope to make a start on my Flying Saucer soon.

Cheers
Mojo

polarisman14
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Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby polarisman14 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:57 am

I'm glad you are taking something from it--that's what the forums are for and definitely the reason I joined (besides being able to share my accomplishments and meet new people!).

My wife was nice enough to steam the front half of the chines for me yesterday while I was at work. I took the towels off this morning so it should be dry enough to start shaping the notches today. My goal is to get them to their final shape today and glue shims in as necessary tomorrow to get them to their required depth. Then Sunday or possibly early next week they'll get the glue and screw treatment and I'll be moving on to the sheer.

I would definitely advise for anyone who is building these boats especially with 4/4 lumber to cut the notches a little shallower than they are marked if you are pre-notching. It's a lot less time consuming to take material away than to add it back in. I'd say 1/2" is a good depth for the notches on 5 1/2 and probably 5/8 for the others just because the front one needs to be beveled a bit more than the others because of the angle of approach toward the stem.

polarisman14
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Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby polarisman14 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:21 am

I spent a few more hours working on the boat this morning. Fitting the chine to the stem was a major pain in the ass but the port side is now done. I cut shims as needed for the notches in the transom, frame 2, and frame 4 and glued and screwed the chines into them. The chines are still clamped at frame 5 1/2 and I have the starboard side wire tied to the stem while the back halves of the chines dry into position. Hopefully tomorrow morning I can fit the starboard side chine to the stem, make shims for the 5 1/2 notches, and finish installing both chines. I'm excited to start in on the sheer sometime soon.

Image

Image

Image

I'm now at the 70 hour mark.

polarisman14
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:04 am

Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby polarisman14 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:31 pm

EDIT: Got a little impatient and decided to fit the starboard chine to the stem. They both fit pretty well with very minimal overhang to the notch that I put into the stem to calculate setback. I believe I can get the rest of it out during the fairing process. I need to make 2 shims for 5 1/2 and glue and screw them permanently tomorrow morning.

I'm now at 70.5 hours.

polarisman14
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:04 am

Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby polarisman14 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:28 am

I got the front half of the chines glued and screwed this morning so the chines are completely and permanently installed. Used what little extra epoxy there was to go back over the notches I glued yesterday to fill in any other voids. Things are looking good and I have the stem bungee-corded to the furnace manifold to make sure it stays completely centered during the drying process. It was only off 1/4" or so, so I pulled it 1/8" past centered and that's where it is currently drying.

I think it's now starting to sink in that I'm actually building a boat from scratch in my basement...It is really starting to look like one now!

I'm now at 71.25 hours.

polarisman14
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Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby polarisman14 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:50 pm

I got the sheer roughly sprung around the notches. Just used some zip ties and mechanic's wire to hold them up and in place for the time being. I'll let it sit for a day and start to take the shape before I go any further on it. Thankfully the cedar bends beautifully so I was able to do it all by hand without steaming anything and didn't even think twice. I need to bevel the notches in their appropriate direction as well but best I can tell they are at the proper depth.

You need to take into account where the outer corner of the sheer will be and I just figured I could clamp a piece of wood to the frame and spring it around it, then measure the bottom edge from that to get 1 1/4" (size of the two laminations glued together). Here's what I mean:

Image

And here's what she looks like now:

Image

72 hours at this point.

polarisman14
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:04 am

Re: Stretched Flying Saucer Build

Postby polarisman14 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:15 pm

I released and repositioned the sheer(s?) today. Beveled the notches except for the ones on the transom as well. Now I just have to steam them tomorrow and carefully drill the pilot holes and countersinks in the sheers, at which point I'll be ready to lop the extra length off the transom and glue and screw them in.

Image

In a week or so I'll have a 6 amp heavy duty electric planer and a respirator. Then I can start in on the fairing. My Dad said he has a electric belt sander I can borrow when it comes time to do the sanding for the plywood.

I'm now at 73 hours.


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