Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Components

Outboard designs up to 14'

Moderator: ttownshaw

User avatar
sandman1
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:13 am
Location: West Tennessee

Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Components

Post by sandman1 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:55 am

I have been reading through various build threads here for weeks and weeks in prep for beginning my Zip build. I have seen quite a few builders comment that they made wooden templates of various frame components and then used a router with flush trim bit to cut out the final pieces. Of all common shop tools, I seem the be most comfortable using a router so my question to you guys and gals that have gone down this path, is any accuracy lost with your routed pieces?

Also, I wonder if it would be a neat idea if builders sell off or donate their templates once their boats are done. What did you guy do with your templates? Chuck 'em or hold onto them in the event repairs need to be made down the line?

If anyone has any Zip templates, I would be interested in maybe buying them so provide me some shortcuts to my zip build. Call me lazy.....I just like to take the path of least resistance. No sense in reinventing the wheel over and over if you know what I mean.
Newb Builder About To Start Building The Glen-L "Zip".

gdcarpenter
Posts: 1382
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 12:18 pm
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by gdcarpenter » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:33 pm

Used 1/4" hardboard as templates, virtually no risk of error or ruining good wood. They are yours if you want them. In Raleigh, NC.
This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

User avatar
sandman1
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:13 am
Location: West Tennessee

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by sandman1 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:45 pm

Wow, that would be awesome my friend. I sent you a PM, sir. I will take them!!!! :D :D :D :D
Newb Builder About To Start Building The Glen-L "Zip".

User avatar
Bill CNC
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:44 am
Location: Hesperia Ca, 92345

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by Bill CNC » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:38 pm

Jezz, ... I just don't get it. :?

I simply just don't understand why people make wooden templates for cutting out frames with a router. In my opinion, it's a waste of time, money and wood. Your pattern has to be dead nut's and very smooth to generate a nice piece you need for the boat. So why do this twice?

As I have explained it before, Gang cut your parts, Then your only making and dressing (1) part, not (3) or more. You making more pointless work for yourself.

Here is the process one more time.

1). Ruff cut your (2) pieces (right and left) of the frame.
2). Stack them together with a QUALITY double sided tape.
3). Spray a light coat of 3M 77 on your paper pattern, or tracing and apply to your wood stack.
4). Cut out the pattern slowly and carefully and you should have no problem being within 1/32" on the outside of the line.
5). Disc sand your stack to the line.
6). Separate your pieces with a putty knife or similar.

Now you have AN EXACT MATCHING PAIR! If you need a right and a left, FLIP one piece over.

That's it! There is absolutely no need to make more work for yourself unless you enjoy it. Try it on a piece of scrap and once you have, ... you will realize making wood templates for routing your frames is a complete waste of time and money.

The only reason to make routing templates is if your making a quantity of the same boat.

Bill
Bill

TNT Build, ... On Going, ... http://tinyurl.com/abmae64

The Freebie Zip, ... On Going, ...http://tinyurl.com/at3udss

Super Spartan Build "Miss Tripindicular", ... Completed, ...http://tinyurl.com/b488wsz

User avatar
BayouBengal
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:29 am
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by BayouBengal » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:12 pm

To each his own, but I make the templates. I really don't understand why you think it's really any more work than what you're doing, it's certainly not much more in any event. Some of the advantages:
- since both sides of the frames were traced with the same template, they end up exactly the same
- if I need to recut a frame, it's easy to do with the template
- I can use the template for setting up the trailer buckboards

User avatar
sandman1
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:13 am
Location: West Tennessee

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by sandman1 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:40 am

Yep, to each their own. Each of us use different tools and skill sets to achieve the same end. My fave tool of choice that I am most comfortable with more intricate projects is a router. Call me crazy but I find I can get better results, consistency, and repeatability using a template system. I have a killer router table that I just bought for my shop and it's too much fun not to use.

GDCarpenter has already boxed up his Zip Templates for me and they are about to be on the way. He didn't mess around when he said he would get them to me! That's the great thing about being a member here, other Glen-L builders are so helpful.
Newb Builder About To Start Building The Glen-L "Zip".

lakeracer69
Posts: 192
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:14 am
Location: NH

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by lakeracer69 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:54 am

Another great thing about having patterns is that it allows you to trace and "nest" parts onto various boards to cut out with minimal scrap.
As Conan the Barbarian says, " It's not how hard you can hit, it's how hard you can get hit and remain standing".

User avatar
jprice
Posts: 687
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:59 am
Location: Marietta, GA

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by jprice » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:05 am

I'm with Bill on this one. I really don't see point in templates unless you're building multiple boats.
But to each his own.
Although it does sound like sandman got a good deal on the pre-made templates. :D

User avatar
darthplywood
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:53 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by darthplywood » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:30 am

sandman1 wrote:Yep, to each their own. Each of us use different tools and skill sets to achieve the same end. My fave tool of choice that I am most comfortable with more intricate projects is a router. Call me crazy but I find I can get better results, consistency, and repeatability using a template system. I have a killer router table that I just bought for my shop and it's too much fun not to use.

GDCarpenter has already boxed up his Zip Templates for me and they are about to be on the way. He didn't mess around when he said he would get them to me! That's the great thing about being a member here, other Glen-L builders are so helpful.
I think thats awesome that GDCarpenter has passed his templates on to another builder. What an excellent way to help a new builder with the early steps of the process. I will make this standard practice on all of my boats going forward! Way to "pay-it-forward"!
Built the 17' Glen-L "Sea Knight"
yet to come...11' Glen-L "Utility"

User avatar
Bill CNC
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:44 am
Location: Hesperia Ca, 92345

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by Bill CNC » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:06 am

BayouBengal wrote:To each his own, but I make the templates. I really don't understand why you think it's really any more work than what you're doing, it's certainly not much more in any event. Some of the advantages:
- since both sides of the frames were traced with the same template, they end up exactly the same
- if I need to recut a frame, it's easy to do with the template
- I can use the template for setting up the trailer buckboards
This is why it WAY more work. In fact, I'm not even going to list the cost or cutting up the 4x8 hardboard your using for the templates.

1). To make your template you need to somehow mark you template piece to match the intended piece you want to make, ... correct?

Same as you would for your gang cut

2). You need to ruff cut your pattern piece, ... correct?

Same as you would for your gang cut

3). You need to sand your template edge pretty smooth or any defects will be reflected in your final pieces, ... Correct?

Same as you would for your gang cut

Here is where I'm going to crack a beer and watch you because I'm already done with making my actual parts that will go into the boat.

4). You need to ruff cut out (2) pieces to router assuming their is a left and right piece, ... Correct?

5). You need to cut those (2) pieces on the router, ... Correct?

6). You need to sand the edges smooth eliminating any irregularities, ... Correct.

I was done after step #3! I have both pieces, neither need any more sanding and they are more exact than the pieces that have been made on the router as mine were made as ONE UNIT and no further work is needed after step #3.

Now it's a good thing that someone is sending someone some templates, but I wonder just how much that cost to ship, it isn't going to be cheap!

I'm not trying to diss anyone here, I am just trying to TEACH you that templates are not needed unless your building a quantity of the same item. In fact, If I was building a quantity of boats, I wouldn't make templates if the boat count was less than (5) Simply it's a waste of time and money. I understand it may be a feel good for some of you, but as your skills evolve, so should wasteful and time consuming habits.

Regards
Bill
Bill

TNT Build, ... On Going, ... http://tinyurl.com/abmae64

The Freebie Zip, ... On Going, ...http://tinyurl.com/at3udss

Super Spartan Build "Miss Tripindicular", ... Completed, ...http://tinyurl.com/b488wsz

gdcarpenter
Posts: 1382
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 12:18 pm
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by gdcarpenter » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:08 pm

Guess I just can't always let sleeping dogs lie.

Thought this forum was for a polite exchange of ideas and exchanging knowledge, NOT judging.

If you are supremely confident in your skills and have very high quality tools going direct from pattern to finished product IS quicker, no argument there. Not all forum members are so blessed.

For me, personally, laying out the templates on my rough stock helps me get the best grain orientation for the part and minimizes waste, important to those on a budget. I would rather spend a bit of extra time and material creating a template than risk an 'oops' on an expensive piece of lumber.

That we are all different is one of the things what makes this world interesting.
This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

User avatar
Bill CNC
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:44 am
Location: Hesperia Ca, 92345

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by Bill CNC » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:21 pm

gdcarpenter wrote:
Thought this forum was for a polite exchange of ideas and exchanging knowledge, NOT judging.
Just how did you come to the conclusion that "I'm" judging?
If you are supremely confident in your skills and have very high quality tools going direct from pattern to finished product IS quicker, no argument there. Not all forum members are so blessed.


Blessed how, in keeping to the outside of a line, ... I would hope everyone can do this, wouldn't you? High quality tools have absolutely NOTHING to do with the process and would only require the exact tools you would use for the template.
For me, personally, laying out the templates on my rough stock helps me get the best grain orientation for the part and minimizes waste, important to those on a budget. I would rather spend a bit of extra time and material creating a template than risk an 'oops' on an expensive piece of lumber.
What's wrong with using the paper template?
Bill

TNT Build, ... On Going, ... http://tinyurl.com/abmae64

The Freebie Zip, ... On Going, ...http://tinyurl.com/at3udss

Super Spartan Build "Miss Tripindicular", ... Completed, ...http://tinyurl.com/b488wsz

User avatar
sandman1
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:13 am
Location: West Tennessee

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by sandman1 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:12 pm

Obviously some of us are more passionate about the art what is considered "Normal"(Depends on the individuals idea of what is considered normal) boat building and I can totally respect that. GDCarpenter and I are obviously of the same mind when it comes to ease of repeatability and accuracy offered by using templates. Todays wide array of jigs and add-ons allows a woodworker to accomplish a lot more with less full size tools that are only capable of one job. I am a very visual person the way I approach some things in very unconventional way due to some backwards wiring in my brain that I have fought with since I was in grade school. I am a very unconventional person thus 9 times out of 1o you cold put me in a room full of people who would all perform certain tasks and functions in the same way but then I would be over in the corner doing something totally off the wall different but accomplish the same end. Can't help it, it's chemical thing.

When I am done with the templates, I would like to pass them along to another person who feels they need to use the template system to get the results they want. A shared repository here on the site would be great way to bring in new people who are afraid to try to tackle building their own boat. Say if you needed templates, a shared set would be sent from one builder to the next provided they simply paid shipping. In this case, GDCarpenter's thin templates plus his awesome job of packing them didn't cost me hardly anything compared to the aggravation I know i would have gone through without them. Believe I know from many past failures. Again, you have to walk in my shoes and see things differently for a moment again remember I am unconventional....not by choice mind you.

Sorry but I love a template based system to keep me from going nuts.
Look at GDCarpenters photos of his boat, it's one of the most beautiful made Zips right up there with Roberta's, VuPilots', and a few others I have spent hours oogling over their build photos.
Newb Builder About To Start Building The Glen-L "Zip".

red
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:54 pm
Location: Milner Ga.

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by red » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:46 pm

well everyone has their own way and that's fine yes making a template will be doing the same thing twice but if you don't have all the tools you would need to get the results you would like then the templates can help for instance all you need with the template is a router and a template bit you wont need a big disc or belt sander to sand down to the line to get the part just right it will be dead on after routing and also if you don't have a band saw and use a jig saw and you try to cut both pieces at the same time with out a doubt you will have a beveled cut due to the blade bending to the left or right in which case you would need a 10 or 12 inch disc sander or big belt sander to dress the parts when your done cutting

User avatar
Bill CNC
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:44 am
Location: Hesperia Ca, 92345

Re: Builders Who Make Wooden Templates Of Boat Frame Compone

Post by Bill CNC » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:05 pm

Yes, I have seen those builds, and Yes, they are beautiful. But a set of templates did not make those boats there beauties that they are. It was by spending the countless hours in the intricate details, and I'm sure the builders themselves will tell you the same.

Look, ... I'm not saying templates don't have their place, they do, ... but building basic frames for a one-off boat such as we do, it's not necessary as I have already laid out in detail. Is the process I described a better way than templates for basic frames?, ... I'm sorry, but yes. Not only is it cheaper, it's faster and more accurate and I am telling you this through the hands of more than 30 years of building prototypes for a living of almost everything under the sun. Regardless, ... I have no skin in the game, just offering an alternative method.

All in All, ... it's your boat, and you really should build it in any way you feel the most comfortable with, templates or not. I'm merely trying to show you and others a more up to date method. Most often than not, ... the use of templates for a one time build is a creature of habit, or not knowing any other way. If it's just for just trial fitting, cardboard is still cheaper than wood for that.

If during your build and your feeling a little bored, ... test out the method I laid out. You can make a small scale sample and you decide whether it's another technique to pursue and add to your skills tool box or not.

Regard
Bill
Bill

TNT Build, ... On Going, ... http://tinyurl.com/abmae64

The Freebie Zip, ... On Going, ...http://tinyurl.com/at3udss

Super Spartan Build "Miss Tripindicular", ... Completed, ...http://tinyurl.com/b488wsz

Post Reply

Return to “Small outboards”