New Squirt Build in New England

Outboard designs up to 14'

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qec
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New Squirt Build in New England

Postby qec » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:29 pm

My boys and I have started building our Squirt. I will start posting pictures shortly including a picture of the "team". Most of my questions have been answered by looking at other builds however I do have one (for today).
I purchased the bronze nails from Glen-L and the fastening schedule shows them used to attach the gussets to the two frames and the trim pieces to the transom. Are these really necessary? I am using epoxy to do all of the gluing. Clearly stronger then the wood. Any thoughts?

Thanks
Quinn

gdcarpenter
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby gdcarpenter » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:52 pm

I'm with you in that the epoxied joint is so strong that nails add next to nothing. I do believe that using them helps keep the parts in alignment when assembling, with pilot holes pre drilled. I used half lap joints with no gussets so not speaking from personal experience here. Good luck with the build and looking forward to seeing the 'crew'.
This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:20 pm

:lol: How long can you wait to move the frames? They may seem set. When you move them the may creep. If you nail them, you can move on, right now, The nails cost very little. My advice is just do it. The cost is nothing in the end.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

qec
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby qec » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:42 pm

I should have been more specific with my question. I already have the nails. As I was about to use them is struct me that they added nothing. Just a general question. I have the same question about the carriage bolts in the middle frame. Why?

Thanks,
Quinn

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Ronb172
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby Ronb172 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:55 pm

I put them in because a man a hell of a lot smarter than me designed it that way. Like a lot of folks here have said before, it's your boat, build it your way. This boat was designed a long time ago, before they had the great epoxies we have now. For the price of the nails and bolts, why not just put them in?
Squirt almost ready to get wet
Building my third SUP.
Started the Topper build.

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BarnacleMike
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby BarnacleMike » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:34 am

Hi Quinn,

Yes, the epoxy forms a stronger bond between the wood parts than the nails or carriage bolts will provide. However, as Bill pointed out, the fasteners will hold the parts together firmly and in alignment until the epoxy cures. While the strength that fasteners add may not be as much as that achieved by the epoxy, as I see it they do not detract from frame strength, either.

Also...

Having the parts fastened together while the epoxy is curing will allow you to move the frames, etc, without having to wait 24 hours or so for the epoxy to cure solidly. This can mean something as simple as being able to move your frames from outdoors to indoors without running the risk of the parts slipping, which would result in mis-formed frames. As for myself, I would not dare to try to move parts that were only clamped together while the epoxy was curing.

Can you build a strong frame with epoxy only? I would think so, yes. However, I believe the practice of doing so would also increase your risk for error... particularly within that first 24 hour window.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

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rbrandenstein
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby rbrandenstein » Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:09 am

I'll reiterate the need to drill pilot holes, if you use nails. Attempting to pound them in can cause shifting, which the pilot holes help avoid.

Regarding the carriage bolts. I don't know the Squirt plans, but on the Malahini, one of the frames used bolts to attach the deck beam. This was necessary to install the frame on the building form as well as remove the hull later. If not, the two would be intertwined.
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Bob
Completed Malahini (launched 6/24/2012)
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby Bill Edmundson » Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:16 am

I tried without the nails. I thought the first one was ready and set it aside. The frame started to creep and warp. I knocked the second out of alignment trying to get to the first. I said a few things that might keep me out of Heaven! :roll:

Then God said, "USE THE NAILS :!: " Problem solved.

Actually, I shoot a few 5/8" brads in the gussets to hold while I nail.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

qec
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby qec » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:46 pm

I am finally back (one year later) to working on the Squirt. The frames are done and on the jig. My keel plank sits high on the stem as seen on the picture. If I put clamp and bolt pressure I know I can pull it in but that does not seem right. Did I screw up something or is this normal?

Thanks,
Quinn
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gdcarpenter
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby gdcarpenter » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:25 pm

Looks absolutely perfect! Don't change a thing! This is normal! CongrAts!
This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

qec
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby qec » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:39 pm

Thank you for the quick response. Do I pull that in with the bolts and a clamp or two or do I fill in the gap with epoxy and fair the top until it is flush? I am guessing I pull it in with clamps.

Quinn

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Roberta
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby Roberta » Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:52 am

Have fun!!! Nice family project!!!

Roberta :D :D :D :D
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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vupilot
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby vupilot » Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:58 am

Yes, pull it in with clamps and bolt it.

Steve S
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby Steve S » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:46 am

Looking good, Quinn. I had the same thing on my build.

Look at my picture on page #2 of “Squirt in Minnesota”. I clamped and bolted and glued. It did bent the keel a bit but after the epoxy was all set up, I used my block plane to level it with the rest of the boat and it came out fine. I did get the keel board wet to help the bending, also. :D :D

Steve S
Squirt build

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mrintense
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Re: New Squirt Build in New England

Postby mrintense » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:57 am

Quinn,

I scratched my head on this one for a while as well. It looks okay to me as well. If you feel the bend is too severe, you could put in a small shim and then fair the excess off the outside.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build


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