Squirt in CT

Outboard designs up to 14'

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mdweber
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby mdweber » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:24 pm

I am very confused, and am hoping you guys can help me out. I seem to have made a mistake somewhere, but I'm not quite sure what it was, or how to fix it.

As vupilot recommended, I mounted the sheer before starting with the chine. This was great for 2 reasons; (1) it shows me how severely I have to twist the chines to minimize fairing, and (2) I get to put off mounting the chines for a few more days (I am really dreading this). The second sheer lamination was soaking in water for a few days, and is now clamped in position. This is where I ran into the problem.

IMAG0712.jpg

IMAG0716.jpg


As seen in the picture, about half of the second lamination of the sheer extends beyond the tip of the breasthook/stem. From the literature, it appears as though the sheer and edge of the breasthook should be even. This makes sense because an even transition is necessary for laying the planking (right?). I am pretty sure my work is incorrect, but I do not know whether the problem is in the sheer, the way I cut the breasthook, or in the way I mounted the breathook to the stem. In some of the squirt blogs, the tip of the breasthook poked out further on the stem. I am not sure whether the breasthook should have been further forward, or if the point should have been longer.

So what do you think is the problem/solution? Do I need to add material to the front of the breasthook or remove material from the sheers? Or, do I need to burn the boat and start all over?

Trackhappy
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby Trackhappy » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:40 pm

First off, don't stress, nothing is unfixable. Second, I suspect there is actually no problem there. In my plan they actually state the most of the sheer outer lamination is faired away as you create the right angle and shape, and then you fill in the small gap that is left between the outer layers and top deck (if that makes sense).

IF there is a problem, I'd just add a couple of laminations on the front of the stem to build it out a little and fair it to a pleasing shape later. Typically the front of the stem is flattened and laminations added anyway for extra strength and a certain amount of sacrificial allowance as it gets regularly dinged. At times like this on my build I did some pre-fairing to see where I was likely to be at and made decisions from there. Seriously though, I don't think it is an issue.

Cheers,
Glenn.
By the time I have built a boat, I'll be ready to build a boat....

Steve S
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby Steve S » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:10 am

Glenn is right, nothing is unfixable. Did your breasthook look like the first picture…with the protrusion where the breasthook will be glued into the slot?
This protrusion will stick out far enough for fairing after the sheers are glued. For some reason, I don’t see this protrusion. :? You can make a piece and glue it to the stem and life will be good again. :D Do you see what I mean? I’m obviously not good at explaining things. :? I hope this helps.
Steve
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BarnacleMike
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby BarnacleMike » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:26 am

MIke,

I wouldn't worry about it too much at this point. I don't think it's going to be much of a problem.

As Steve pointed out, and as I remember from my own (abandoned) Squirt project, the front protrusion of the breasthook should extend out past the stem somewhat. The photos don't look like yours protrudes much. Some possible causes for this could be: a) Your stem is cut oversized from the plans, or; b) The notch in the underside of your breasthook is not cut as long as it is drawn on the plans.

By comparison, the protrusion of the breasthook for the Zip does NOT extend past the stem. My point is, obviously this isn't a necessity for building a successful hull. So, there is no reason to panic.

My advice would simply be to proceed with caution, and watch that bow closely as you fair the forward end of the boat. I think whether or not you need to add any more material to the breasthook will make itself obvious during the fairing phase. It could be that the area you're concerned about will all be faired away, anyway. For what its worth, the 2nd layer of my sheer lamination on the Utility was faired away to almost nothing at the bow... I even sanded all the way past a couple of the screw heads.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
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Steve S
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby Steve S » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:38 am

This picture was taken before I was done fairing and you can see how much of the point is gone already. Note the screw head is going away, like Michael mentioned.
Steve
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mdweber
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby mdweber » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:47 am

Thanks for the pictures and explanations, guys. It looks like the point of my breasthook does not extend out long enough. I remember noting this when I attached it to the stem, but did not think much of it at the time. From what Steve posted, it appears as through the entirety of the pointed portion of the breasthook should be forward of the front of the stem.

I guess I'll leave this issue alone for now, and worry about it during fairing and planning.

Thanks!

Btw Steve, your plywood components look great!

Steve S
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby Steve S » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:18 am

It’s the wood, not the woodworker, but thanks. :lol:
Steve
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mdweber
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby mdweber » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:56 am

Got through the sheers, now a question on chines.

I am wondering if this is a good idea.

IMAG0759.jpg
IMAG0777.jpg


Would it be wise to attach the chines to the stem while leaving these pieces of wood in place to maintain the "twist?" They are helping to hold the bottom of the chines out (twists the chine counter clockwise).

Thanks,
Mike

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby BarnacleMike » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:18 pm

Mike,

I think it would probably be okay... I am assuming those pieces of wood are clamped on instead of fastened on?

Also, don't forget that you'll also have to have enough material to fair away on the bottom-side of the chine, towards the stem. Is this just one layer of the chine shown in the photos? (I thought Id read somewhere that you were planning to laminate the chines). If so, then the added thickness from the 2nd layer should give you enough material to work with towards the stem.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

mdweber
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby mdweber » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:42 pm

Hey Mike,

The picture shows only the first layer of chine, but there will be a second. So, I'm going to have to set it back to the distance of not only where the stem will be faired to, but the added distance of the second lamination. I was reading through your blog today (it's FANTASTIC) and I thought you did a great job fairing the stem and creating an even transition between the stem and chine. How did you determine how far forward to mount the chine? I am worried that I will be either too far forward, resulting in too much chine needing to be faired away, or too far back, in which case I would have to add a shim between the chine and the planking.

I just can't seem to figure out how these chines will attach to the stem. I am considering making a chine block on the stem to give me more material to attach to.

Best,
Mike

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby BarnacleMike » Thu May 01, 2014 6:09 am

Hi Mike! Thank you for the kind comments about my blog!

As for determining how far back on the stem to connect the chines.... There is a simple little gauge you can make to help determine the placement. It is shown in Boatbuilding With Plywood. Also, there is a good photo on Carl's blog of using this gauge to determine how far back to position the chine. Here's the link: http://veracruise.blogspot.com/2014/04/installing-chines-part-2-starting-sheers.html

I used basically the same type of thing to determine chine placement on the Utility. Also, I had to re-cut the forward bevel on my chine so many times, I was more or less able to "walk it back" into position.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

mdweber
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby mdweber » Thu May 01, 2014 11:31 am

Wow. Mike , I have seen that picture in building with plywood a million times, but have not understood it until now. I was always confused as to how to cut the notch on the tool. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the notch itself does not matter so long as it is out of the way of the unbeveled portion of the stem. It simules the chine extending directly to the center tip if the stem.

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby BarnacleMike » Thu May 01, 2014 11:44 am

mdweber wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the notch itself does not matter so long as it is out of the way of the unbeveled portion of the stem. It simules the chine extending directly to the center tip if the stem.


Bingo! That's correct.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

mdweber
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby mdweber » Sat May 03, 2014 4:28 pm

Thanks for posting Carl's blog, Mike. It has a lot of great information in it.

I see that his chines were set into notches deeper than the chine. By that I mean that he had to fair his frames while leaving his chines (more or less) untouched. Did you do this? How deep did you set your chines into frame 2?

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Squirt in CT

Postby BarnacleMike » Sat May 03, 2014 6:09 pm

Hi Mike,

Yes, you'll wind up fairing the frames as well as the chines & sheers. My chines were set into the forward frame similar to what you saw on Carl's blog.

Try to imagine this: As your chine travels through the notch in the forward frame, the chine will be even with only the aft edge of the frame. From there forward, it cuts deeper into the frame, as much as is needed to create a fair curve forward to the stem. During the fairing phase, the frame is faired down to match the chine.

You basically wind up with a bevel on the forward frame (frame 2 on the Squirt & utility)
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com


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