Michael's ZIP

Outboard designs up to 14'

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BarnacleMike
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Michael's ZIP

Postby BarnacleMike » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:45 am

I'm beginning to have enough ZIP questions that I thought I'd go ahead and separate this topic from my "Utility" thread. I've been looking forward to this for a long, long time.

I am still cutting frame parts, and I'm preparing to cut the side members for the transom frame. Fortunately, scrap pieces from Frame 5-1/2 were plenty big enough for these.

The instructions indicate to cut the transom parts at a 10° angle (angled away from the lines) on the outer sides, because the transom plans are drawn to the smallest (aft-most) dimension. It stands to reason that if I do this the same way for both the plywood part and the solid parts, I'll wind up with a "sawtooth" profile on the side when I assemble the parts.

SO: Assuming a 3/4" plywood transom, it looks like I should make my cut on the outer (side) edge of the frame members approximately 1/8" outside the line drawn on the plans, (again with the blade angled away from the line). I'll attach a graphic of what I'm basing this on.

Don't get me wrong— I'm not expecting these pieces to line up perfectly when I put them together. I'm just trying to get reasonably close. Does this approach make sense / sound reasonable to those of you who have actually built Zips?

Thank you!
Attachments
10 degrees.png
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby Bill Edmundson » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:08 am

Michael

I would not fool with the 10 deg. cut. I would just cut the 3/4 ply an 1/8 over. Then cut the frame pieces 1/8 over and let it step. This can all easily be faired off.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

gdcarpenter
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby gdcarpenter » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:39 am

Hi Michael, being the odd duck I am I used a 10 degree beveled router bit to 'fair' the sides of my transom, which was 1 3/4" thick solid white oak. If the final dimensions are 'off' 1/8" or so nobody will ever know, except you. I actually found the 10 degree side bevel a bit too much and couldn't get my hull side ply to take that much curve at the transom. Cuttin a bit big and fairing when you layout the hill side ply will likely work the best.
This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby BarnacleMike » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:31 pm

Bill, did you mean cut the 3/4 plywood 1/8" over, and the frame 1/4" over?
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

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vupilot
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby vupilot » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:45 pm

Michael

I agree with gdcarpenter. The sides didn't take much angle to get a nice fit with the side planking. I bet mine are less than 10 degrees also. I would guess somewhere over 5 deg but less than 10. With that said though I just added about 1/4"+ to the outside of the transom sides and bottom and cut it with the blade straight then faired the aft edges to the angles needed during the fairing process.

CA

bjfrater
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby bjfrater » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:27 pm

I cut everything oversized on the outside edges by about an inch then attached the frames and the plywood together using temporary screws. Then I rough cut the bottom and the sides using a circular saw with the guide set at the correct angle. This removed most material and gave me a guide for fairing what was left, which was hardly anything.
It also ensured that the ply and the frames matched up perfectly.

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby BarnacleMike » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:03 pm

Thank you, Brendon. What spacing did you use on the floor battens, since you went with three per side? I've looked through the instructions for spacing on the 3-batten option, but I missed it if it's there...
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

bjfrater
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby bjfrater » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:21 pm

I will have to measure it when I get a chance tonight and will let you know.
I think I just moved the existing notches in the plans over by a couple of inches then added in a third one outside the first two.
There wasnt any specific location that I recall and I dont think it came from the book or plans. My battens are 2 1/4" wide as that was the best use of the timber I had.

One thing with my frames that I would do differently is to pre cut the notches in the frames for the chine and sheer as on the plans before putting them on the building form.
When I did mine I didnt cut the notches until the frames were on the form so that I could get the angle of the sheer and chine. I think this was not a good idea in hindsight as It was easy to cut the notches differently on each side which I then had to change.

gdcarpenter
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby gdcarpenter » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:45 pm

Hi Michael,

For what it's worth I went with 3 floor battens per side. I reduced the width of each batten to 1 3/4", but added stiffeners or strong backs that were 5/8" thick and averaged about 1" high lengthwise down the middle of all the battens. This allowed me to run my floor slats side to side using only 5/16" thick slats to seriously reduce the weight of the floor.

For the life of me I can't remember why but I suspect there was some reasoning for my batten spacing.

Measuring center to center my spacing is:

Keel to first batten 6 3/4"
First to second batten 5 3/4"
Second to third batten 6 3/4"

I have no way of knowing, but I suspect my 'extra stiff' floor allows me to reach 30 MPH with only a 1959 35 HP outboard.

Looks like you are making good progress!
Attachments
image.jpg
This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

Cabron
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby Cabron » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:26 pm

I`m with what the guys have said on this.

Cut the transom 1/8 outside of the plan line and the frame around a 1/4" outside the plan line
then just fair as required. I should have taken this approach but did not know better.
I fussed getting my transom and frame angles just right on the first cuts. I did it but it was a nightmare
trying to figure out the degree of flair out of the parts. The flair out of the notches was something else. That took some
serious head scratching. Fortunately it`s all behind me now.

I should have done the 3 battens per side. Oh well. I did not

Looking forward to seeing your ZIP progress.

:)

bjfrater
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby bjfrater » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:50 am

Hey Michael, Lots of good advice here.
The measurements of my battens are from the centre of the keel to the centre of each batten 7 1/2", 13 3/8", 19 3/8".

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby Bill Edmundson » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:18 am

Mike

I just saw your follow-up question. Yes 1/8 over on the ply then 1/4 on the frame. This will give you a 1/8" step. You will fair off the step and trailing edge of the ply.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby BarnacleMike » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:34 pm

Thanks guys. I just cut the side pieces 1/4" over. I like the simplicity of the "step-and-fair" approach.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby BarnacleMike » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:41 am

Here are some progress photos of the Zip. I've got the transom frame members cut. They're cut from 4/4 mahogany and are 1/4" oversized on the outer sides and on the bottom. I did not try to cut the 12° bevel on the bottom... I'm going to step and fair that, as well.
Attachments
IMG_0848.jpg
IMG_0849.jpg
IMG_0852.jpg
progress on frame #4
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

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mrintense
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby mrintense » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:17 am

Looking good Mike.

Lots of interesting comments here. I see several things I could have differently. Oh well, too late for that now but I am looking forward to see what you do with the Zip.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build


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