Michael's ZIP

Outboard designs up to 14'

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gdcarpenter
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by gdcarpenter » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:57 am

Hi Michael,

I added bottom batten stiffeners. As I recall they were 5/8" thick and varied in height between about 1" - 1 1/2".
I simply epoxied them in place.
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hoodman
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by hoodman » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:22 pm

Michael, I'd invite you to walk around in my Geronimo, which doesn't have any of that webbing, to see if you think the floor is stiff enough for your tastes. It would be pretty fussy to have to fit all that plywood in place. All I have are the two floor battens notched into the frames.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by BarnacleMike » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:37 pm

Well, for me the webbing would be more about reinforcing those 1/2-lap joints on the battens. To use them as floor supports would be more of a secondary benefit.

Of course, the same could be achieved with the "T" shaped battens like gdcarpenter pointed out. Those would probably be easier to install, also. I would just need to notch them for the plywood butt blocks that are reinforcing the joints already.

Then again, they may need no more reinforcement at all. The joints are already quite strong. I'll see if they start flexing more once I'm finished fairing them.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

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mrintense
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by mrintense » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:31 pm

These stiffeners are something I've been wondering about as well. One of the things about the Vera Cruise is the larger sizer and the spaces between the frames. On the bottom the battens are there, but I can't help wondering if they need to be stiffened up. Matt, I am relieved to hear that you're not experiencing any issues with this.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by BarnacleMike » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:44 am

Here are a couple of progress photos that show all the battens installed and trimmed along the transom.

As far as adding stiffeners to reinforce the half-lap joints, I'm becoming less concerned about it. I've been fairing the floor battens along that side, and in the process I've leaned on those joints quite a bit. They don't move. In fact, they're more rigid than the solid pieces next to them.
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IMG_09-16-2018-004.jpg
IMG_09-16-2018-003.jpg
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by BarnacleMike » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:03 am

My 2nd-ever attempt at a scarf joint.

I joined 2 pieces of 8' long 2" x 1/2" boards for the first chine log on the Zip. I got a little carried away with thickening the epoxy, and added a little too much wood dust. The mixture was extremely pasty... well past the "peanut butter" reference that many people mention. However, I clamped it up good & tight, and it seems to have bonded the boards just fine.

I'll be laminating the chines for ease of bending.
Attachments
IMG_10-02-2018-002.jpg
IMG_10-02-2018-003.jpg
IMG_10-02-2018-004.jpg
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by BarnacleMike » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:24 am

Started fitting the starboard chine today.

I am considering whether or not to make chine blocking for the stem... partially in order to help support the curvature of the chine between the stem and Frame #5-1/2, and also just to reinforce the joint between the chine and stem.

Has anyone else made chine blocking that was not shown in the Glen-L plans? I'd be very interested to learn how you went about it.
Attachments
IMG_10-13-2018-002.jpg
IMG_10-13-2018-006.jpg
IMG_10-13-2018-009.jpg
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

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mrintense
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by mrintense » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:36 am

Mike, if I understand your question correctly, you are talking about additional bracing between the stem and the chine in that triangular area forward of the frame. If you boat is anything like mine, the plywood planking that curves over this area is going to add considerable rigidity to that area. I think this and the attachments of the sheer and chine to the stem is why the joint between the stem and the keel is not that robust. I consider this area the strongest on my boat hull.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

BillW
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by BillW » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:55 pm

I added a chine block to a Squirt. It's much like the breast hook. It was not on the original plans.

In the same way that the breast hook defines, or establishes, the curvature of the sheer between the stem and first frame,
well the chine block enables the chine to assume the proper curve near the stem.

On the Squirt, I could not get the chine to curve correctly, near the stem, without putting a breast-hook type block in there.
It's not so much about extra strength, but more in getting the chines to assume the right curve, as they leave the stem on their
way to the first frame.

I scaled up a drawing from the plans, then made a block close to being correct, then modified it several times.
Start out with a flexible batten to simulate the chine, while you work out the block.

This block will do it's job best if it is fairly large; about the size (fore and aft dimension) of the breast hook.

I don't have a photo; that was before I had a digital camera. Hard to believe we ever used film.
Bill

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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by Hercdrvr » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:15 am

I’m a fan of the chine block as well, made one for my little Squirt. It allowed me to set the chine angles at the stem into the the block. Now I can wrestle the chine into place without worrying about precise placement, the block is my guide. Also, The elusive chine twist is easier with the angle cut into a chine block.
Matt B

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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by Hercdrvr » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:22 am

Not that you really need a picture of a chine block, it’s easy to make, but here is what mine looked liked.
Matt B
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sproggy
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by sproggy » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:47 am

As Bill said, a chine block does allow you to influence the curvature of the chine between the stem and frame 5 1/2. In hindsight I wish I'd made a chine block for my Zip because my chines are too 'flat' in that area and will require shimming to avoid a concave area. I suspect a chine block would have been less work than the shimming I now need. Probably it depends to a certain extent upon the timber you use for the chines - I used yellow cedar which is quite flexible - if I'd used oak or utile I think there would have been more curvature forward of frame 5 1/2.

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hoodman
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by hoodman » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:12 am

The Geronimo has chine blocking at the stem. It made it super simple to attach the chines without having to have a perfect fit on the stem. Also, no guesswork on the placement of the chines. However, I still ended up having to shim the chines up forward to get the fairing to work. I suspect there are some designs where the placement of the chines vertically on the stem is more critical to the shape of the hull and that is one of the reasons that they have them and others don't.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

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sproggy
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by sproggy » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:50 am

hoodman wrote:I suspect there are some designs where the placement of the chines vertically on the stem is more critical to the shape of the hull and that is one of the reasons that they have them and others don't.
On some designs the height of the chine may be critical for the skin being developable (able to take sheet ply). Plus a chine block will probably be favoured on the heavier/faster boats where extra strength is needed at that point.

But it's a good point about how critical the height can be - if my chines had ended up a couple of inches lower on the stem it would have changed the angle of the bottom skin enough that I wouldn't need to shim them. But they just wouldn't do that - not without exerting an uncomfortable amount of pressure in a direction they just didn't naturally go in. Maybe my notches in the first frame were off slightly - who knows?

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BarnacleMike
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Re: Michael's ZIP

Post by BarnacleMike » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:07 am

I made a chine block, but ended up not using it. The angles involved left me very little room to attach it.

However, I did use a couple of blocks attached to the side of the stem to help with vertical placement. These were incredibly helpful when it came to cutting the bevel on the chine, as well as attaching the chine to the stem. I also attached a backing piece to the tip of the chine, to thicken it where it meets the stem. (I did not like seeing part of the screw exposed between the chine and the stem). This was very easy to do. I simply added it to the chine, and cut the bevel to match. Here are a few photos...
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IMG_10-26-2018-024.jpg
IMG_10-26-2018-025.jpg
Last edited by BarnacleMike on Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

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