New 4 stroke Merc

Outboard designs up to 14'

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cusoak
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New 4 stroke Merc

Postby cusoak » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:07 am

I have a Zip that I built a while back It has a 1961 45 hp Merc which I love but am getting tired of trying to make it run right all the time.
So I am thinking about replacing it it with a newer 40 ho 4 stroke Merc.
Will the boat handle weight wise one of the newer Merc.
Jeff

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rbrandenstein
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Re: New 4 stroke Merc

Postby rbrandenstein » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:42 am

Jeff,
Ted Gauthier put a 45HP 4-stroke Honda on his Zip.
It should handle it, but will probably sit a bit lower in the stern.
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Re: New 4 stroke Merc

Postby travis24 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:55 pm

Jeff

New mercs now are totally different than what you're use to. Engineering is amazing for one also you can't even hear them run there so quiet. You will like the new models,weight wise a 40 hp is 216 lbs. Sorry about your troubles with you're classic merc let me know the problems with the motor and will go from there.

Travis
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vupilot
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Re: New 4 stroke Merc

Postby vupilot » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:23 pm

Ive sometimes considered the same Jeff. My old Mercury is running good but I did have to replace the switchbox this spring.
When or if I ever do replace it I may just go with a new 25. It wont go as fast but with my immediate family being only 3 lightweights it should plane out just fine for our needs. I want to keep the weight down and physical size of a new 40 kinda looks big on a Zip to me.

The new motors are rated at prop and old motors rated at crank, as you probably knew, so a new 25 is probably close to 28hp if rated at the crank like the old ones. A Zip builder in California has a video of his Zip with a new Honda 25 and it does fine with it planing nice with two adults. A 30 I think would be perfect compromise but a lot more money than a 25 is.

There are plenty of folks that have put new 40's on Zips but your waterline will be a a couple inches deeper in the stern. If you are always running with 4 adults in the boat a 30 or 40 will have all the power you need.

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Re: New 4 stroke Merc

Postby gdcarpenter » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:07 am

I have no idea what a new 40 HP would weigh, but your current motor should tip the scales around 125-130 pounds.
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galamb
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Re: New 4 stroke Merc

Postby galamb » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:42 pm

There is currently two different 40 horse models in the Merc line-up.

There is the (standard) EFI 3 cylinder model that comes in at 216 pounds (motor only with no fluids or prop installed) and the "Command Thrust" EFI 4 cylinder (formerly called BigFoot or High Output and possibly a couple other names) that tips the scales in the 260 pound range, again, without fluids or prop installed.

When they introduced the "new/current" 40 horse it shared a power head with the 50 and 60. Along the line, in order to shave weight from the 40 they gave it it's own power head (3 cylinder) and called the "older" model (4 cylinder) the Bigfoot.

The difference between the two models is significant. Where displacement equals torque, the 4 cylinder model has "guts" in comparison, but with the weight penalty. Additionally, the CT model has the 2.33:1 gears designed to push more weight and turn a bigger prop compared to the 2:1 gears in it's 3 cylinder sibling.

All of the 40, 50 and 60 horse Mercs are built by Merc at their plant in China - that may or may not have any bearing on whether you continue considering this as a motor you would hang on the back of your boat...

PS - just hung the CT version on the back of my buddies boat a couple weeks ago. His boat is an 800 pound aluminum (fully rigged, less the motor), just on 15' in length, full console model - and with two of us on board it "gets up and goes". His hull is rated for 60 horse max so "typically" I would have recommended a 50 horse, but his wallet said "40 CT" and the performance is NOT disappointing :)
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Re: New 4 stroke Merc

Postby Scot2640 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:59 am

Don't want to hijack the thread but besides the HP recommendations would you guys recommend the Merc brand? When it comes to motors I usually think Honda or Yamaha. I'm an outboard noob, but I would be interested in which motors are thought of as top of the line as well as ones to avoid.
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Re: New 4 stroke Merc

Postby Bill Edmundson » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:40 am

Down on the Gulf coast Yamaha is the most common in saltwater. Inland in fresh water you see Merc. Suzuki is coming on strong on the coast.
Honda seems to have a problem after 5 years with the foot in saltwater.

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galamb
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Re: New 4 stroke Merc

Postby galamb » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:32 pm

For many years I worked on smaller outboard (25 horse and under) and did some package boat rigging part time. Not so much no more, most of the new stuff needs a diagnostics computer to tell you what is wrong with it, so aside from rebuilding carbs for the local Merc dealer (the "new" techs don't know what a carb is), I have pretty much packed it in.

Over the years most of the outboard mfg's "shared parts", so you didn't always get what you think you were getting. About 80% of 2 stroke Merc's had powerheads and gears made by Yamaha. A number of years back Merc and Yamaha got into a piddling match and the deal went south. Merc then entered into a joint venture with Tohatsu, initially to develop their direct injected 2 strokes to compete with Yamaha (scrapped after a few years) and Evinrude/BRP.

Yamaha produces more outboards then all of the others put together AND they design every new model from paper plans (probably CAD now) all the way to completion. Most others "cobble together" older designs etc - so there is some attraction to buying a Yamaha for that reason alone - however, in my piece of the country you have to go pretty far to find a Yami dealer - so that's a big negative (at least while it still has warranty).

Before OMC bit the dust Suzuki was building all the 4 stroke Johnson's - so just a Suzuki painted different. Since BRP bought out OMC, they scrapped Johnson all together and all Evinrudes are Direct Injected two strokes (and far superior to many of the earlier 4 strokes no matter how you measure).

Merc has really diversified their production. Everything "below" 40 horse is built by Tohatsu (who also builds the entire Nissan line). So whether you buy a 25 Merc, 25 Tohatsu or 25 Nissan the only thing different is the paint and decals.

The 40/50/60 horse Mercs are "built by Merc", but in China at their plant there. The parts are sourced from Asia, assembled there and then shipped over. I have "trouble" considering that a "Merc".

The larger Merc horsepowers are still put together in the US from "domestic and imported parts".

Honda makes probably the "best built" motor out there. But there is a major issue. When they stop production of a model they also cease parts support from factory. So once the widget you need is no longer in stock, if you model has been discontinued, you have a paper weight. As far as I know that is still the case (like I say, been 5'ish years since I really had my fingers in the pot). That alone stops me from owning a Honda - I don't have the luxury of "turning over" my outboards every couple of years for the latest/greatest.

So depending on what horsepower you are looking for and what is available for local service (at least while you have warranty) might dictate "what is best FOR YOU".

Under 40 horses I would buy a Merc or an Evinrude E-TEC. 40 to 90 I would be looking to Yamaha or Evinrude and at the 90 horse range I would look at an Optimax (Merc). But that's just me ;)
Graham

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cusoak
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Re: New 4 stroke Merc

Postby cusoak » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:10 am

Graham That was a very good post .
Thanks.
Jeff

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BayouBengal
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Re: New 4 stroke Merc

Postby BayouBengal » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:14 pm

I'll second that. Excellent post! Thanks Graham for taking the time to share your in depth knowledge in this area.


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