Newbie with questions

Outboard designs up to 14'

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frost314
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:04 pm
Location: NJ & Galicia Spain

Newbie with questions

Postby frost314 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:13 pm

So I have been looking around here and Glen L for a while and have decided to build a plywood boat of my own. While I like the Zip, flying saucer and the Ski Tow from Glen L, I also like the PM38 and the Playboy as well as certain design features from other boats. I guess that is the reason most DIY boat builders build their own boat to ensure they get a custom boat to their liking.

I am probably going to build 2 of these and ship one to Spain to keep at my family summer home.

The following are things I need/want in my boat:

Length - 13'6" to 14'
Seating - 4-5
Outboard Motor
Rear swim up ladder/swim deck
front cockpit will have middle fold down seat with walk thru to rear cockpit.

I will be painting both boats and going the budget route as they will not sit out in the elements so I will use ASH instead of mahogany.

I don't do too much fishing so the need for an open deck is not high on my list. I plan on making a removable cover for the rear cockpit that will be padded to be able to lounge on.

I am new to runabouts and have done a ton of research but still have questions. Here are some questions I have:

1 - With Runabouts how do/where do you use/store anchors for tying off when not having access to a dock? Pictures please.

2 - In order to have a rear swim up ladder/swim deck with an outboard I was looking at adding tail pieces similar to the Torpedo pictured below. Has anybody had any experience with this? If not possible I was looking at smaller tail pieces to mimic the angle of the rear of the Van Dutch 40 also pictured(My dream boat) and still have the motor inset between the tailpieces slightly similar to flotation pods on duck boats. This could aid in planing but I am worried about this causing porpoising.

3 - How low do you sit in a runabout like a Zip or Playboy? I was looking at possibly raising the deck and sides about 4-6 inches in order to sit higher. In spain, we have to deal with boulders below the surface close to shore and in this case I prefer to stand and steer at low speeds. Sitting higher would allow me to stand faster in case of shallow water. What issues would there be with raising the frame sides and deck?

4 - In order to mimic the Van Dutch 40 I was also looking at keeping the rear sides straight like the center frames as opposed to curving the tops back in toward the inside of the boat to eliminate the barrelback look and look like the ski tow to have flatter deck tops on either side of the outboard. Does anybody see an issue with this as well?

5 - Also I was wondering if anybody has built or seen a wooden runabout with an open bow/bowrider? This is just a thought.. I may just put a hatch up front for anchor/misc item.

6 - What options are there to protect the keel besides the pvc keel guards?

7 - In Spain you cannot pull up onto the beach so you have to anchor about 40 meters out and then swim/row in. Does anybody have a small tender boat with their runabouts? And if so, how do you transport them? attached to front deck or tow behind?

8 - I am also thinking about adding a bimini top to the boat. Is this overkill?

9 - Can anybody post pictures of their frame glue up/joints?

10- Windshield. I am thinking about either a windshield with a pass thru to access front hatch, 2 piece lexan with custom wood brackets, or a low wood windshield like this :
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... LK6ODtKcFA


Budget Build:
11 - I have read a lot about Mahogany vs white oak vs ash debate. I am leaning toward using ash because of the following reasons: Price. will not be left out in the elements, and will be fully painted/sealed anyway.

12 - For this reason I was wondering about the need for Marine Plywood. I have used and really like Purebond plywood. Purebond has very few voids. and if it is properly sealed with epoxy inside and out, plus fiberglassed on the outside, why would you require marine grade plywood if it will be sealed from water?

13 - Has anybody poured foam in wooden runabouts? Or is this only used in fiberglass only boats?
Attachments
Hybrid NL with pods.jpg
duckboat with pods
5874260993_2fa5edeb0a.jpg
VanDutch40
2j15v0y.jpg

Hercdrvr
Posts: 346
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 12:52 pm
Location: McKinney TX

Re: Newbie with questions

Postby Hercdrvr » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:43 am

Yikes, that's a lot features to fit into a 14 ft boat.
Good luck

User avatar
rbrandenstein
Posts: 817
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: O'Fallon, MO

Re: Newbie with questions

Postby rbrandenstein » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:38 pm

I'll cover a few.

1. I store my anchor and line in a Rubbermaid dishwashing pan. I cut notches to hold the anchor cross piece. I don't have a picture. I store it on the floor under the front deck. When needed. I slide it out and set on the deck. Depending on anchor size, a bucket of some sort could also work. I set and get my anchor from the cockpit.
2. No idea. Could cause more drag when not planing. You still need some kind of ladder to get up onto these.
3. On the Malahini, the floor boards are approximately the water line. So, your seat bottom would determine height. My seats are about 6" from the floor, plus 2" foam. You could sit higher without adding to the sides. Adding height would increase weight and possibly look a bit funny.
4. You should be able to reduce or eliminate the barrel back.
5. Not much room up there. Also, there probably is a cross beam for strength which you would have to eliminate. Not sure on that.
6. I suppose you could dado a shallow groove and put SS rub rail down the keel length.
7. What about an inflatable raft? Towing a dinghy would be difficult.
8. Bimini is possible. Several have added them or built there own. I bought a square umbrella/sunshade (Taylormade) and set it up in the boat when at anchor and too sunny.
9 see below
10. For a boat of the size your are considering, I think you might be adding too much complexity. It is pretty easy to step up on over the windshield on my Malahini. Also, with the anchor in a bucket under the deck, you can set and retrieve the anchor from the cockpit.
11. You can build a boat out of most any wood. However, if you are investing the time, etc. you probably should use recommended materials. Not too familiar with Ash for boats (good for baseball bats). You're safer sticking with a known commodity. In addition, the difference in cost is a very small part of the boat build. I could have used mahogany versus white oak for only a few hundred dollars difference.
12. Same argument as 11. You could do it and it would probably last years. In addition to the void issue, most marine has extra plys for more strength.
13. Pouring foam directly is not recommend since water could seep into the gaps and stay there, causing trouble. A lot of people cast fitted blocks of foam the can be removed.
IMG_0332.JPG

IMG_0324.JPG
________________
Bob
Completed Malahini (launched 6/24/2012)
http://bobsboatbuild.blogspot.com/

Pullie
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:09 am

Re: Newbie with questions

Postby Pullie » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:06 am

I did a 2 hour trip yesterday on an inland river with my FS stretched to ZIP size. We had 2 adults and 1 7 year old child. so approx. 150 Kgs of passangers. With the 1 foot swells from wind and passing inland freightships we had a pretty wet ride.

I assume you want to boat out on the sea? In that case I would advise something a little bit larger and with a lot more freeboard, especially when wanting to take it out with 4 or 5 people. A 14 foot boat is just too small.

I boat a lot on a river without docks (not even at the slipway) so we have to do a lot of beaching and the entry exit point is usually the bow. That's also why I left out the windshield.

under the front deck I have the fuel tank (12 Ltr) a battery, fire extingisher, first aid kit, anchor, documents, charts and 2 lifejackets.

Under the rear deck I have spare fuel (5Ltr) 2 lifejackets, fire extingisher, paddle, 2 bumpers, and a bag with some engine spare parts, manual bilge pump flares etc.

Mine is built open deck (utility) and will seat 2 adults and 2 children or 4 lightweight adults and only in protected waters. swells higher than 0.5mtr are too much (Read Fergal Butler topics about his crackerbox)

IMG_2051.JPG


IMG_2203.JPG


IMG_2057.JPG



just my 2 cents

frost314
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:04 pm
Location: NJ & Galicia Spain

Re: Newbie with questions

Postby frost314 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:41 pm

rbrandenstein wrote:I'll cover a few.

1. I store my anchor and line in a Rubbermaid dishwashing pan. I cut notches to hold the anchor cross piece. I don't have a picture. I store it on the floor under the front deck. When needed. I slide it out and set on the deck. Depending on anchor size, a bucket of some sort could also work. I set and get my anchor from the cockpit.
2. No idea. Could cause more drag when not planing. You still need some kind of ladder to get up onto these.
3. On the Malahini, the floor boards are approximately the water line. So, your seat bottom would determine height. My seats are about 6" from the floor, plus 2" foam. You could sit higher without adding to the sides. Adding height would increase weight and possibly look a bit funny.
4. You should be able to reduce or eliminate the barrel back.
5. Not much room up there. Also, there probably is a cross beam for strength which you would have to eliminate. Not sure on that.
6. I suppose you could dado a shallow groove and put SS rub rail down the keel length.
7. What about an inflatable raft? Towing a dinghy would be difficult.
8. Bimini is possible. Several have added them or built there own. I bought a square umbrella/sunshade (Taylormade) and set it up in the boat when at anchor and too sunny.
9 see below
10. For a boat of the size your are considering, I think you might be adding too much complexity. It is pretty easy to step up on over the windshield on my Malahini. Also, with the anchor in a bucket under the deck, you can set and retrieve the anchor from the cockpit.
11. You can build a boat out of most any wood. However, if you are investing the time, etc. you probably should use recommended materials. Not too familiar with Ash for boats (good for baseball bats). You're safer sticking with a known commodity. In addition, the difference in cost is a very small part of the boat build. I could have used mahogany versus white oak for only a few hundred dollars difference.
12. Same argument as 11. You could do it and it would probably last years. In addition to the void issue, most marine has extra plys for more strength.
13. Pouring foam directly is not recommend since water could seep into the gaps and stay there, causing trouble. A lot of people cast fitted blocks of foam the can be removed.
IMG_0332.JPG


Thanks for the info. A lot of good points. I have a few follow ups.

7. I was thinking inflatable just not sure if I would tow it or strap it down while underway.

8. Are bimini tops removable?

13. I was also thinking of building boxes under the foredeck before covering it and pouring foam there. That way if the boat ever gets swamped. it will still float upright.
IMG_0324.JPG

frost314
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:04 pm
Location: NJ & Galicia Spain

Re: Newbie with questions

Postby frost314 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:53 pm

Pullie wrote:I did a 2 hour trip yesterday on an inland river with my FS stretched to ZIP size. We had 2 adults and 1 7 year old child. so approx. 150 Kgs of passangers. With the 1 foot swells from wind and passing inland freightships we had a pretty wet ride.

I assume you want to boat out on the sea? In that case I would advise something a little bit larger and with a lot more freeboard, especially when wanting to take it out with 4 or 5 people. A 14 foot boat is just too small.

I boat a lot on a river without docks (not even at the slipway) so we have to do a lot of beaching and the entry exit point is usually the bow. That's also why I left out the windshield.

under the front deck I have the fuel tank (12 Ltr) a battery, fire extingisher, first aid kit, anchor, documents, charts and 2 lifejackets.

Under the rear deck I have spare fuel (5Ltr) 2 lifejackets, fire extingisher, paddle, 2 bumpers, and a bag with some engine spare parts, manual bilge pump flares etc.

Mine is built open deck (utility) and will seat 2 adults and 2 children or 4 lightweight adults and only in protected waters. swells higher than 0.5mtr are too much (Read Fergal Butler topics about his crackerbox)

IMG_2051.JPG


IMG_2203.JPG


IMG_2057.JPG



just my 2 cents


The water I will be on in spain is the Ria de Arousa which is similar to a fjord. It's like a bay. While it isn't open ocean, you can see 1 meter swells when the wind picks up or it can be flat calm. That is why I was looking to raise the freeboard 4-6 inches on the PLayboy model plans. And while it can be very sunny( we had 3 weeks of straight 40 degree celsius days) once it starts to rain it rains about a week to a month straight. Think of Seattles climate. I would want to make the bimini top removable.

I was thinking 2 small danforth or grapple style anchors. 1 in front and 1 in back.

cusoak
Posts: 927
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:49 am
Location: Senecaville Ohio

Re: Newbie with questions

Postby cusoak » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:12 am

Hi the only comment that I have is on the size of the boat you want to build.
I built a zip and have a 45 hp Merc. on it. I have 1 bench seat in the rear that the seat lifts off and I store my anchor there.
It has a walk through to the 2 front seats. We have had 4 adults in it and I can tell you that the boat does feel safe but with the size of the motor it will take it will not run or ride very nice in rough water.
As far as a swim plate form and a out board I don't think there is enough room.
If you want to ski behind it you will nee to reinforce the transom to withstand the force of pulling a skier.
I would think a larger boat is needed for your requirements.
Jeff

Tony Hain
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:01 pm
Location: Queensland Australia

Re: Newbie with questions

Postby Tony Hain » Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:53 pm

Have a serious look at the Geronimo design. It is very versatile, a greater freeboard for more open water. At 16 feet it can be shortened by up to 10% (1.6 feet) by why would you if you really don'ty have to.
Just my opinion but take a look.
Tony Hain
"Never under-estimate the bounds of human stupidity" (Robert Heinlein)
and on a more optimistic note "nor the capacity for human brilliance"

frost314
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:04 pm
Location: NJ & Galicia Spain

Re: Newbie with questions

Postby frost314 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:41 pm

Tony Hain wrote:Have a serious look at the Geronimo design. It is very versatile, a greater freeboard for more open water. At 16 feet it can be shortened by up to 10% (1.6 feet) by why would you if you really don'ty have to.
Just my opinion but take a look.


I didn't think of the Geronimo due to my size restrictions for the boat I will take to spain, but for the one I will have here it could definitely work.

frost314
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:04 pm
Location: NJ & Galicia Spain

Re: Newbie with questions

Postby frost314 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:42 pm

What about modifying the transom something like this?

Image


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