Michigan Squirt Build

Outboard designs up to 14'

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JimmY
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Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Brighton, MI

Battens

Post by JimmY » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:18 pm

I also got the battens fitted and temporarily installed. These are 3/4" think and 2" wide and are pretty stiff to bend and twist. On the outside ones I tapered them forward of frame 1 so they would be easier to conform to the bottom sheeting. I'm not sure what to do with the longer battens as they are very stiff and look like they will distort the sheeting.
20161113_123616.jpg
At this point I'm pretty much out of the 1qt. kit of poxy-grip and my syringes are pretty gummy. I'm not sure if I'm using too much, but I don't know where I could have save any. It wasn't like there was a lot of mixed epoxy left over in the cups. Good thing Glen L is having a Veteran's Day sale, so I'm getting an order together for screws and other supplies.

Next up is a jig to cut scarf joints for the plywood sheeting...
Last edited by JimmY on Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

rleete
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Location: Rochester, NY

Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by rleete » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:01 pm

This may be a stupid question, but why don't you cut the majority of that material off before installing the chines? As I'm, why don't you use a table saw or similar to rip most of that away so there's less planning/sanding later?

Hercdrvr
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Location: McKinney TX

Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by Hercdrvr » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:25 pm

Trying to pre-fair chine and sheer? I can't see it, wouldnt know the angles to cut until it's in place on the frames. Every time I deviate from the book or directions I regret it.

We all have our favorite fairing tool, mine is a belt sander with 36 grit sand paper and a 4' guide stick. Preferably done outside, bit dusty. I used to be baffled by the fairing process, but it's really quite simple, give the plywood a flat surface to mate to.

Y'all that use hand planers are cool, it's traditional and it makes some good looking fire starter.

Matt B
McKinney TX
Squirt and Malahini builder

JimmY
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Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Brighton, MI

Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by JimmY » Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:10 pm

Hi Rleete,

The problem is, the sheer on the squirt at the stern angles out about 45 degrees and at the stem angles in about 45 degrees. In between it blends into the sides. The chine is another story! I'm not sure what boat you're building where you could pre-cut these pieces.

Time to sweep up the shop!
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

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hoodman
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Location: Lafayette, IN

Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by hoodman » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:09 am

Hercdrvr wrote:Y'all that use hand planers are cool, it's traditional and it makes some good looking fire starter.

Matt B
McKinney TX
Squirt and Malahini builder
I faired almost my entire boat with a hand plane. A sharp hand plane can hog off material much faster than a belt sander. I did use a belt sander some on the sheers between the forward most frame and the stem. The other things I love about hand planes is that you don't really need any safety equipment, they are quiet, and there is no dust.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

JimmY
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Location: Brighton, MI

Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by JimmY » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:00 am

Hi Matt,

I'll second your opinion on the hand planes. Once I got down to it, it was pretty fast and the chips are a lot easier to clean up than dust from sanding. Even the power planer makes reasonable size chips which are better than dust.

Later,
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by Bill Edmundson » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:31 am

I'm with Matt. I've never been able to really use a have plane. I never had anybody to teach me the proper way to use it. I use a power plane to get the big stuff. Then I'm back to the belt sander.

The Bartender has been out of the basement since August and I'm just now starting to make a dent in the dust!

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

Benj269
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Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by Benj269 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:39 am

I did a little bit of rough fairing with a power plane, but they are just a little too unforgiving for me to do anything more. I did most of my fairing with a jack plane and spoke shave. The spoke shave gets into tight places and it is easier to reference the working plane with the long handles and the jack plane is good for long runs down the chines or sheers. When I'm using hand tools. I consider it "quality time". You just don't get the same connection to a project with power tools. 30 years ago my high school wood shop teacher was of the mindset that everyone should first learn how to use and maintain hand tools before they learn anything else. The real key to hand tools is keeping them sharp.

Bill, I'd show you if you were closer. You ought to find someone local that can get you up to speed.

JimmY
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Location: Brighton, MI

Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by JimmY » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:51 am

Hi Guys,

I got this hand plane (Wood River No. 4) for Christmas last year, and this is the first time I've really used it heavily. When I got it, I also picked up a set of water stones for sharpening. With a $10 guide, I was able to hone the blade in pretty short order. I had practiced on an cheap Stanley Block plane, which now cuts a lot better with a sharp iron. The block plane is used to knock off epoxy drips and tight spaces. The No. 4 is a really nice tool and I'm looking to expand my plane collection.

You're right about the power planers being a bit unforgiving, but I keep the cut depth at 1/32" which translates into 1/16" on curved pieces and stop well short of the final shape.
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

JimmY
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Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Brighton, MI

Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by JimmY » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:34 am

I started cutting plywood for sheeting (Thanks Ben for the sizes) last night. I test fitted them with a lot of clamps and my initial fairing job is pretty close. I was concerned about the center battens being too stiff to bend under the sheeting, but I was pleasantly surprised. I clamped a sheet in place, and slowly worked it down toward the bow and darn if the battens didn't bend just fine. Again, I can't say enough about working with Sapele, it is stiff but bends without complaining.
20161115_193454.jpg
I final cut the battens off at 16" from frame 2, and planed the thickness down a bit.

One area I have to work on is at Frame 2. Along the bottom the sheeting lays fine, but does not fully contact the rear half of the frame (floor support) between the outer batten and chine. If I try to plane more off in this area, it will affect the chine line and require a lot of re-shaping. The other option is to scab on a piece to bring this area up a little, which is what I think I will do.

The other problem area at frame 2 is on the sides. There is a bit of a gap between the side sheeting and the frame. I've tried several things to bring the sheeting in (clamping a board across the outside), but there is definite curve to the sheeting in this area and it doesn't want to cooperate. Adding screws into the frame is no-no according to the "book", so the options are to leave the gap or scab on to the frame and re-fair. Anyone else have this problem out there? When fairing this frame, I was careful not to change the shape and only took off material along the forward edge.
20161115_220010.jpg
I've got a jig setup to route scarf joints to join the plywood panels. I have some time off for Thanksgiving, so I hope to make some progress when I'm not entertaining the in-laws. :(
20161114_225807.jpg
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

BillW
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Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by BillW » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:19 am

JimmY,
You asked if anyone had this problem. But I don't think it is a problem.

In some other Glen-L boats, the bottom skin does not contact the frames at all. That is better than having frame contact
which could cause a localized stress concentration, at the frame. I did not scab on a shim to bring the frame into contact
with the skin. But, do seal the frame edges really well before the skin goes on.

I think this particular issue is more important in faster boats.

You are doing beautiful work,
Bill

DSR
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Location: Allegan, Michigan

Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by DSR » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:43 pm

Hi Jim.

Just wanted to stop by to say what a great job you're doing on your Squirt and even in just frames and longitudinals, the boat looks great. I really like the lines of the Squirt design and you're definitely doing it justice. :D

See ya
Dave
DSR Performance - Home of yet another jet TNT build :D
Codename "Just A Little....."
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hoodman
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Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by hoodman » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:14 pm

I had that same thing happen at the forward most frame on my boat. I filled it with thickened epoxy. I'll clean it up better after the flip. You want the sheeting to take a natural curve. If you try to clamp to that frame you're going to have a dip there.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

Hercdrvr
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Location: McKinney TX

Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by Hercdrvr » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:03 pm

Keep the planking away from the frames. If the plywood contacts a frame it will leave noticeable bulge on the side of your boat. I don't have a page reference but the book is clear on this one.
It's one of those aspects of the build that is very counterintuitive at first.
Matt B
McKinney TX
Squirt & Malahini

PeterG
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Location: Connecticut

Re: Michigan Squirt Build

Post by PeterG » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:48 am

I am with Matt on this, the plywood should make contact with the edge of the frame for support but not at the expense of pulling the plywood out of fairness. Like Matt, a thickened epoxy will fill the gap nicely. Make it a stiff batch, peanut butter consistency, so it won't sag.
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
Griffin's Law: Murphy was an optimist.

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