UK Zip Build

Outboard designs up to 14'

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sproggy
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by sproggy » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:41 am

Port outer sheer now fitted. But only after buying a load more clamps. I used a total of 36 clamps for this job but the good news is I think I now have enough for the rest of the build! Aft of frame 4 the sheer twists through about 60 degrees before it meets the transom and that twist meant I needed clamps every 4 or 5 inches to keep the two laminations together.

Image

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sproggy
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by sproggy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:19 am

Slow progress recently, or at least that's how it seems. But both outer sheers are now done. And I've finished the stringers on both sides too:

Image

Image

The first 8' of the topsides will be 1/4" sheet ply then it'll be cold-moulded the rest of the way using two layers of 1/8". The top stringer was most difficult as it has to twist through nearly 90 degrees between transom and frame 4. Again, I was thankful for the flexibility of yellow cedar.

Next job is to build up the height of the sheer by 1 1/2" (2 layers of 3/4" ply) to get the remainder of the total 3" increase that I want. Quite how that's going to work as the sheer twists aft of frame 4 I've not figured out yet. But the transom has the full 3" lift already so the sheer packing will taper towards that. Once that's done I need to figure out how much more work to do with the boat right way up - certainly fairing the topsides aft will be easier this way up and possibly the aft planking too but I'm not sure how far to go before flipping it back over.

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sproggy
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by sproggy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:34 am

I decided to stop worrying about things and flipped the boat again. Well, actually I just rolled it over - I figured if my work up to this point was done properly it would be plenty strong enough to cope with that and the fastenings of boat to build form were strong enough to keep the two rigidly attached. And so it proved:

Image

After a tidy up I started a bit of initial fairing and soon confirmed my suspicions that the chines were too flat - the worst point was around a foot back from the stem. So I've applied 3/8" shims which should just about be sufficient to avoid any concave areas.

Image

This was the last epoxy application until the ply skin goes on. Just in time as it's really getting too cold to use epoxy in an unheated garage, even with fast hardener. Fairing will keep me warm during the winter months and I hope to be ready for ply by February which will be a year into the project. That's slow by many people's standards but a reflection of my scarce spare time and I'm actually pretty happy with progress.

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hoodman
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by hoodman » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:07 am

Looks great. It's pretty common to have to laminate that area of the chine.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

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sproggy
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by sproggy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:40 am

hoodman wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:07 am
Looks great. It's pretty common to have to laminate that area of the chine.
That's what I keep telling myself - it's not a bodge, it's an accepted adjustment :-)

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mrintense
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by mrintense » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:04 pm

I spent quite a bit of time "Adjusting" this area! :shock: :shock:
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

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BarnacleMike
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by BarnacleMike » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:16 pm

sproggy wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:40 am
hoodman wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:07 am
Looks great. It's pretty common to have to laminate that area of the chine.
That's what I keep telling myself - it's not a bodge, it's an accepted adjustment :-)
It's so common that I consider it simply part of the build. I'll probably have to add a little more to mine as well (again). No worries. It'll be strong.

Very, very fascinating project you've got going here! Can't wait to see the results!
-Michael

"How long does it take to build a boat? Until it's finished" — yours truly

Blog (Utility & Zip): http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

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sproggy
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by sproggy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:46 am

Now I've faired the chines into the stem properly I realise that I actually set the chines around 1/4" back from where they should have been which of course made the situation worse. That despite using the accepted notched straight edge as a guide. Even if I'd set them right, though, I still think they'd have been too flat and needed a shim, albeit a thinner one. It comes back to it being quite a struggle to set the chines accurately without an equivalent of the breasthook to both locate and force curvature into them.

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hoodman
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by hoodman » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:30 pm

The Geronimo has chine blocking. And I still had to shim the chines. It's really nothing you did wrong. It's just the nature of the beast. Wood, being a natural product, just doesn't bend the same every time.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

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sproggy
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by sproggy » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:41 am

I've made almost no progress the past few weeks - family, work, Christmas preparations have all got in the way. Just a few half-hearted attempts at fairing. It's not much fun.

I have, however, spent far longer than is healthy thinking about hull finish. When I started I intended to cover the topsides and the bottom forward in mahogany and finish them bright. But I am increasingly drawn to finishing the topsides in white with bright transom and deck. Both because I like the look and because with our restricted waterways the hull will get knocked around and it's easier to refinish paint than varnish if the damage goes deeper. However..... I keep coming back to the junction between transom, deck and side, where the side rolls right into the deck with the transom shape I've gone for. I can't picture that with paint on the side. The only barrelback-shaped hull I've seen with painted hull and bright deck was painted black.

So another possibility is a paint design something like this Squirt:

Image

but with the green paint replaced with bright finished wood.

This may seem premature but a decision on finish affects hull construction to a degree so I do need to decide before I order my ply.

Any thoughts, opinions? I know it's my decision but I seem completely incapable of making one so......help!

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by Bill Edmundson » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:40 am

Sproggy

I do like this little boat! Good quality Okumne (Never can spell that damn word.) can be finished out bright with very good results. The biggest thing is that the frame fairing has to be almost perfect. Under paint you can use a fairing mixes to fill depressions or fasteners. Bright work... it is what it is.

I'd go for what I want. If it doesn't work, paint it.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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BarnacleMike
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by BarnacleMike » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:42 am

I can only echo what Bill said.

I understand your concerns about maintenance & repair; that paint would be easier. I still consider the same thing on my own project.

But, look back to what inspired you to start this project in the first place. If I recall correctly, your modified transom design was inspired by your admiration of the Riva Aquarama & Ariston boats. The way the tumblehome rolls seamlessly from the sides to the deck... it just screams for a bright finish. I’ll bet that’s what caught your eye to begin with.

You’re going to put so much work into this thing, based on that initial vision. Why compromise on your dream because of what “could” happen. Practicality be damned! Ha ha ha... you’re not building a fishing boat, here.

Sure, it’ll get dinged up... whether paint or varnish. But, I’d give it some serious thought before deviating from the vision that inspired you to begin with.
-Michael

"How long does it take to build a boat? Until it's finished" — yours truly

Blog (Utility & Zip): http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

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sproggy
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by sproggy » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:31 pm

BarnacleMike wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:42 am
If I recall correctly, your modified transom design was inspired by your admiration of the Riva Aquarama & Ariston boats. The way the tumblehome rolls seamlessly from the sides to the deck... it just screams for a bright finish. I’ll bet that’s what caught your eye to begin with.
The Barrelback more than the Rivas really, although I've seen numerous Rivas around the Mediterranean 'in the wood' but Barrelbacks only in photos as they're not common over here. One Riva in Mahon harbour in Majorca in particular sticks in my mind - my wife had to literally drag me away from it - I was probably actually drooling. You're spot on, though, Mike - that is what drew me to them. The trouble is, I like so many different designs, my influences are becoming cluttered. And my mind the same, as a result.

As someone pointed out yesterday on another thread, you can paint over a bright finish if you don't like it. But it's way harder to go the other way! I suspect I will end up going with a bright finish as you so rightly say fits with my inspiration. Which means 3/8" ply on the bottom, aft (instead of 1/4"), shifting to 1/4" with mahogany over forward so I can run paint to up to the waterline rather than the chine. Well it all makes sense in my head.

I really must get to the fairing - the sooner it's done the sooner I can get on with the fun stuff and quit stewing, mentally, over what comes next.

Bill, yes, ocume ply does finish well but for me it's not enough - if I'm having a bright finish it has to be solid timber. Most likely utile. Anyway, the topsides aft will be cold-moulded and that definitely won't work bright without another layer on top. As for my frame fairing.....it's my first build. My technique may not live up to my quality aspirations. We'll see.

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sproggy
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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by sproggy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:17 am

This sounds a lot like a confession but it's my first post in 8 months and I've made pretty much zero progress. Lots of reasons (life gets in the way) but I'm trying to get moving again. I was prompted by the offer to get some 3mm (1/8") ply for a third of the regular price due to 'edge damage' caused by a fork lift. That arrived today......but turned out to be 4mm thick. The supplier then told me when I queried it that the thickness might have been another reason why it was discounted. I suggested that they might have mentioned that before taking my money.... Anyway, I ordered the ply to cold-mould the rear half of the topsides. But 2 layers of 4mm ply will leave me with 8mm trying to meet 6mm forward. A step either side doesn't fit well with my plans.

So what options do I have? I could cold-mould all of the topsides - a more time-consuming approach than is necessary as well as being one that costs more - 2 sheets of 4mm ply cost more than one sheet of 6mm plus there's the extra epoxy. I'm ignoring the weight consequences for the moment.

Or I could somehow try to blend 8mm into 6mm just aft of frame 4. That sounds horrible just thinking about it.

I could set the 8mm back into the frames and stringers by 2mm but that wouldn't leave me with a fair profile.

Shim the frames, sheer and chine forward out by 2mm to bring the 6mm out to meet the 8mm? That would at least give me a fair curve.

I could send the ply back but the supplier says they don't have any 3mm ply that is actually 3mm thick. Go figure.

The arrival of this ply was supposed to give me an incentive to get back to work on the boat but I fear it'll just give me another reason not to...

Any suggestions? Right now cold moulding all of the topsides sounds like the only real option but I'd better order more sheets of this "3mm" before they get onto another batch that is a different thickness. And this is supposed to be top quality stuff!

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Re: UK Zip Build

Post by CarlM » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:17 am

Take this suggestion with a grain of salt. Other more experienced than me might find fault with this that I'm not taking of. I know on my Gentry i will need to cut the ply into strips. My thought is you could probably get away with running the strips through the thickness planer. Using the factory surface for the insides and the planed surface to accept the mahogany layer. Any voids that are uncovered could be filled with fairing compound. Just my 2 cents.
... ... .......Carl

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