Squirt in Manitoba

Outboard designs up to 14'

Moderator: ttownshaw

User avatar
hoodman
Posts: 1829
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:48 am
Location: Lafayette, IN

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby hoodman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:32 am

On the Squirt is the keel supposed to be parallel to the setup level? If so then I think you are just about dead on. Somewhere in one or more of Glen's books he says that in a planing hull the aft 1/3 of the boat should be flat fore and aft. Ahead of that is not as important to be perfectly flat but for the whole surface to have "fair" curves. Try taking a ruler against the keel on the scale drawings and see if that tells you anything. Sorry, I have not seen the Squirt plans.

You look flat enough between the transom and frame 1 to me. And things could change once you glue and screw it in place.

What you're calling a hump to me just looks like the start of the bend over the second frame into the stem because it looks like its perfectly level aft of that. In the second picture, it looks like if you were to put your finger on the aft end of that level the bubble would be perfectly between the lines.

User avatar
Bill Edmundson
Posts: 11108
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:45 am
Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
Contact:

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:38 am

Most of the time, the keel aft is 2* or 3* different than the setup line.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

Two8nine
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:21 am

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby Two8nine » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:48 am

hoodman wrote:On the Squirt is the keel supposed to be parallel to the setup level?


Trouble is I don't know :oops:

I think that it must be parallel between the transom and frame 1. As you suggested I've taken a straight edge to the plans, but we're talking an 8 inch drawing with quite thick lines, so it's really hard to tell. My only concern with the 'hump' is that the peak of the hump will be the highest (or lowest when righted) point of the keel by a small amount -- but from what I see in other threads this is probably normal, or at least not a huge issue. I'll give a recheck, hum and haw, and probably fasten it tonight.

Appreciate the help so far.

User avatar
BarnacleMike
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 am
Location: North Georgia / Chattanooga Area
Contact:

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby BarnacleMike » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:32 am

Two8nine wrote:
Also, noob question, but probably important -- frames are counted stern->bow right? So the center frame of a Squirt is Frame 1?


Yes, that's right. What helps me to remember this is to think of the transom as "Frame Zero" & count forward from there.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

User avatar
BarnacleMike
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 am
Location: North Georgia / Chattanooga Area
Contact:

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby BarnacleMike » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:42 am

Two8nine wrote:
hoodman wrote:On the Squirt is the keel supposed to be parallel to the setup level?


Trouble is I don't know :oops:

I think that it must be parallel between the transom and frame 1. As you suggested I've taken a straight edge to the plans, but we're talking an 8 inch drawing with quite thick lines, so it's really hard to tell. My only concern with the 'hump' is that the peak of the hump will be the highest (or lowest when righted) point of the keel by a small amount -- but from what I see in other threads this is probably normal, or at least not a huge issue. I'll give a recheck, hum and haw, and probably fasten it tonight.

Appreciate the help so far.


Okay, I stand corrected. YES... the keel is supposed to be parallel to the setup level. If you look closely on the plans, it says "KEEL PARALLEL TO FORM BETWEEN #1 & TRANS." So, the bend actually begins from Frame #1 forward, becoming sharper from Frame #2 forward.

Also, just my 2 cents based on my own experience: Don't sweat the "trimming and shimming." We all do it, and it's really no big deal. Pay attention to detail, naturally... but don't overthink it. You'll drive yourself crazy.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

Two8nine
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:21 am

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby Two8nine » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:45 am

think of the transom as "Frame Zero" & count forward from there.


And all the software developers around the world nod approvingly... :wink:

Thanks for the input, I'll double check everything and soldier on, but I think it's on the right track.

Cheers.

User avatar
hoodman
Posts: 1829
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:48 am
Location: Lafayette, IN

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby hoodman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:54 am

Yup, you're doing great! Keep at it!

Two8nine
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:21 am

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby Two8nine » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:24 pm

Ok, after a few more days of adjustments and trepidation the keel is on. After screwing/bolting it down it was pulled a bit out of level perpendicular to the boat, but not too worried about that due to the amount of fairing needed anyway. Cinching it down to the knee and stem also increased the dip towards the transom to maybe 1/16. Still level, but there is a slight dip there, as well as a slight hump forward -- but I think both are minor enough to be easily faired, especially since I'm using a thicker keel than specified.

Image

Also picked this up -- which would have really come in handy earlier. Not the best saw, but was $50 with the store wrap still on -- and cuts quite nice.

Image

Now I'm slowly working at the chine -- I intend to do 2 laminations of 3/8, and am stuck at the twist. (As I suspect most new builders are.)

It's difficult to picture properly, but I'll try here.

#1 This is the twist of the chine right off frame 2. It seems to line up with the temp sheer ok.
Image

#2 However, I'm not sure how to get that consistent through to the stem. Is the chine supposed to mate to the stem at a similar angle to that of the bow. (Like this:)
Image

#3 If I do that, the twist along most of the chine is dramatically too small to meet the sheer. (Probably 3-4 inches off) If I twist the chine enough to more closely match the desired angle (like this)
Image

#4 The twist becomes seemingly too much at the stem (like this:)
Image

I understand that the junction of the stem and chines can vary a fair bit, but I'm struggling to find a position where the twist remains consistent forward of frame 2. Hoping someone who's done this can shed some light on it in case I'm missing something.

Also my shop isn't always that messy... honest...

User avatar
vupilot
Posts: 3361
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:36 am
Location: Indy
Contact:

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby vupilot » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:20 pm

The hump at under the keel at the stem is normal and fine. The dip in the keel toward the back will need to be faired out. You want that 4ft section where your level is to be totally flat with no dips.

I like the twist more like your second set of pictures. I found it easier to get that result by first cutting the chine to meet the stem while clamped in place at the frames and twisted by a helper using a clamp for leverage just aft of the stem while I use a backsaw to cut the angle using the flat slab side of the stem as a guide. Then I marked where it seems to fit nice against the stem remembering to allow for fairing the leading edge of the stem. Then glue and screw that first lamination in place, the second lamination I worked from the stem aft, cutting the angle at the stem first and working aft only using epoxy and clamps, no screws. No two boats chine will land in the exact same location on the stem dont worry too much about how high or low on the stem it lands, just get the distance back from the leading edge of the stem right to allow for fairing the stem. This is definitely one of the more challenging tasks of the build.

Two8nine
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:21 am

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby Two8nine » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:40 pm

Thanks for the response -- by second set you mean the last two pics? With that the twist will be ok right up until the last foot or so (towards stem) after that the twist seems to be too much -- as in a piece mounted to it wouldn't touch the sheer at all, so the chine would need to be faired heavily to reduce the twist at the very front. Is that ok?

Two8nine
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:21 am

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby Two8nine » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:44 pm

Taking a break before I drive myself bonkers -- can't seem to get the twist in a position that makes sense. I misread my initial measurement and cut the chine to 5/8 instead of 3/8 and promptly broke it. (That's an initiation right?)

Recut to 3/8, and have it in position now, but still doesn't make sense to me. Hoping to get your input --- is this right?

Each of the 'sticks' are blocked out to match the 3/4 thickness of the finished chine, none of them touch the sheer. (Though they would if the sheer was full thickness, I left it thin to account for eventual fairing.) However, the gap between the stick and sheer is dramatically larger in the most forward 'stick' and if I could fit one right at the stem it wouldn't even touch the breasthook.

I know the chine will move in a fair bit once attached to line up with the faired stem -- but it still seems the twist is too much up front, and reducing the twist leaves it not twisted enough for the rest of it's run.

Do I leave the twist as is, and just fair the front of the chine, or reduce the twist and add a shim to the rest? (Or something else entirely?)

Image

neel thompson
Posts: 1222
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:33 pm
Location: Collegeville, Pa

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby neel thompson » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:55 am

I'm not too familiar with the Squirt, but have you tried going the other way? In other words, attach/clamp the chine where you want it to the stem and then work your way aft, bending and clamping to the frames as you go. On tough bends, I have soaked the piece to be bent in water for 24 hours or so. Then clamp it in place and let it dry... After it has dried, it will retain most of the curved/bent set. You can then glue it in place, but not before it has thoroughly dried out. Once you get the bow section right, the rest will be a piece of cake....

User avatar
hoodman
Posts: 1829
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:48 am
Location: Lafayette, IN

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby hoodman » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:26 am

The chine going in to the stem is a challenge for everyone. Even on the boats with chine blocking. I ended up adding a lamination to the chine between the forward most frame and the stem in order to get it to play nice with the sheer. Any way you slice it you will have significant fairing to do.

JimmY
Posts: 664
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Brighton, MI

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby JimmY » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:56 am

I started with the sheers. This gave a good reference for the twist of the chine, and stabilized the frame a bit. I also added a Chine block to help hold the a angle at the stem.

Here is how I did it.http://www.glen-l.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=30104&start=60#p183735
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

PeterG
Posts: 556
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:08 am
Location: Connecticut

Re: Squirt in Manitoba

Postby PeterG » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:45 am

You have a great start with setting your chines. I do agree with JimmY's suggestion that you may want to finish installing the sheers and then fit your chines. The angle of the chines wants to align as close as practical with the upper outer corner of the sheers (bottom outer corner when upside down :wink: ) so having a finished sheer takes out the guesswork of where that corner is. And the location where the chines meet the stem does vary, I think due to the type and size of the wood and it's flexibility. Pick your spot at the stem by getting it close to where you think it should be. Then try sighting the chine from every angle to make sure it's make a smooth curve and make adjustments as needed.
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
Griffin's Law: Murphy was an optimist.


Return to “Small outboards”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests