Building The Vera Cruise

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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mrintense
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:23 pm

Thanks Tom, John, Jim, Tim, and Bill, I very much appreciate the feedback.

My wife and I spent a portion of the evening going over design ideas and we have a more coherent plan now that takes into account the work I've already done. It's funny, even though we were only looking at disjointed pictures of ideas from other boats and at pictures of my unfinished interior, in my mind's eye, I could see it coming together into a pleasing pattern, far better than what I had originally envisioned. This is the advantage of having an artistic wife.

as I mentioned before, I am going to redo the partition, this time out of solid lumber, the type is yet to be determined, but it will be a lighter colored wood than the African Mahogany. Or optionally it might be plywood veneered with a lighter wood, however the ply would be thicker and the veneers would be thinner. I'm inclined to go with the solid lumber though.

What's great about this exercise is that we found a way to incorporate the colors of the boat in the interior while retaining the nice woody feel. Hopefully it will all come out as planned. Of course, initially, the boat is going to be bare bones as I focus on getting it to a point of usability. Most of the finish work will come after the launch.

Jim, I considered a porta potty briefly, but I plan on having a built in head box which completely hide the composting toilet and the toilet seat. And honestly, given how we expect to use the boat, I expect that 90 percent of the time all I will have to do is empty the urine bottle. Also I will consider your suggestions of woods. We have in mind a bit darker color although much lighter than the current frames (which are African mahogany).

Tom, the current plan is to cover the two forward walls sections with horizontal slats in a similar manner to that seen in many other boats. The cushions for the V berth and seats will be loose and include additional loose cushions that can be used as back cushions when seated. The ceiling is probably going to be some shade of off white with exposed mahogany beams. The upper cabin (the portion with the windows) will be made from solid mahogany so that will be darker in color, but should be nicely offset by the lighter colors of wood in the rest of the cabin. and I also considered clamping a cleat on the partition, but frankly, I'm not happy with the current partition anyway.

Thanks again, everyone. I hope someday, I can display pictures of my boat here that will fit in with all the other quality boats being produced here.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:24 am

I tried to spend more time working on the boat this weekend (around all the other myriad things I have to do) and I was working consistently, but only have a medium amount of visual progress to show. Because of the curve in my original head box partition, I decided to replace it with a thicker piece and the veneers will be different. So I made that, and then needed to make spacers so that the partition mounted up to the frame correctly. Those were made and epoxied into position. Afterwards some epoxy clean up and then two more seat box horizontal supports were made and fitted. Started working on the head box vertical support and then got side tracked by the need to do some more thinking about measurements. Now, it's time for more chores around the house. So here's the visual progress for the weekend. I'm hoping to do some more later today.

IMG_20170930_085853.jpg
New thicker partition - no veneers yet


IMG_20170930_112145.jpg
Installing spacers for the partition


IMG_20171001_100924.jpg
The starboard seat box horizontal supports are all fitted now.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:34 pm

Heck with the chores, I only get 2 days off! :D :D

Since I am having an open back of the cabin (instead of a bulkhead with a door), I wanted to come up with some way to dress up the opening. I mocked up an idea using poster board which I think still needs a bit of work, but basically what it is is a narrow extension of the last ceiling beam that goes down to the cabin floor and then sweeps out a bit to hide the gusset.

The mock up in this photo is not very good and it makes the cabin look to flat on top (there will be more of a curve to the roof line). I am also trying to visualize better the transition from the ceiling beam to the vertical portion. The entire piece will be bright work. In the photo I mocked up a portion of the floor and the side panel that adjoin the trim piece. I'll keep playing around with it some more. all of this is on the port side.

IMG_20171001_152057.jpg


The reason I decided to do this today was because I am after a small space between the head box and the opening of the cabin. This space will carry all the way around the ceiling and down the other side. The plan is to have a hidden curtain rod there for when there is a need to close off the cabin for privacy when using the facilities. Most of the time the curtain will be tied back and the cabin will be open.

I did get back to working on the head box structure before I had to stop. This box has to be slightly taller than the seat box to accommodate the additional height of the composting toilet and because the additional height of the normal seat box will be made up with cushions. In the photo, the fore and aft piece is not the final part, it is just there so I could verify the two side pieces were level with each other.

IMG_20171001_160234.jpg
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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chugalug
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby chugalug » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:47 am

:D Looks interesting ,Carl.If its going to be all open,what are you using to keep the skeeters out?Maybe down in Texas ,you don't have skeeters :lol:
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:21 am

Skeeters here are the size of airliners so they can't fit through the back of the cabin. :D :D

Actually, from my experience so far, mosquitoes are not a problem out on the lake, only when stopped near the shore. The plan for evenings or early mornings is to have a wrap around enclosure (like a tent) Incorporated into the bimini with screens and such. Of course that won't be available for a while after the boat is on the water. Just have to deal with them the traditional way until then (using baseball bats) ! :lol: :lol:
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:25 pm

I'm fishing for ideas today. This photo shows the existing floor support structure in the cabin area. I want to make it easy to get to the bilge under the floor. The floor itself extends under the seat boxes and other cabinetry in the cabin. This means that it will not be possible to lift up the entire floor once everything is installed.

I am tentatively planning on installing narrow floor sections on both sides(approximately 4 inches wide) which will run fore and aft. These would go partially under the cabinetry and then extend inboard approximately 4 inches. You can get an idea what I mean by looking at the line drawn on the plywood that runs just inboard of the partition. It would extend inboard of that point approximately 1 inch.

This leaves a gap between them of approximately 25 inches. I was thinking this wold be filled by a 25 inch wide, fore and aft access panel running the full length of the cabin. This would provide great access to the bilge and be easy to lift out when it's necessary to access the bilge.

Here's the problem. The outboard floor supports are approximately 8 inches from the inboard supports (center to center). The side floor strips would extend past the outboard supports a sufficient amount that they (and the center access panel) would need additional support on the edges of the floor and strips.

I was thinking three wooden cross beams between the outboard and inboard supports. These would serve as supports and a place to install blind nuts to hold the floor down. So there would be a total of 12 of these supports (6 in the section closest in the photo and 6 more in the next section forward).

I am looking either for alternatives to this plan or alternatives to mounting the cross supports. Ideas so far are have cleats on each end of the cross beams (a PITA), or I could drive screws through the long supports into the cross beams (but I have doubts about being able to do this without stripping the heads because of the thickness of the supports). Another option is to butt glue them in place, but not sure how strong this would be. I also considered "L" brackets (perhaps aluminum), but still kind of a PITA.

IMG_20170907_141628.jpg
IMG_20170910_140630.jpg


Because of the distance between the floor supports, I don't think any kind of reinforcement of the floor will be adequate. One other piece of information. The floor will be 1/2" marine plywood.

Hope this makes sense.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:35 am

Well, I am still open to ideas if any come up, however, I think I might have a solution. I forgot about the KREG pocket hole jig that makes it possible to install screws at an angle. I could use this to cut the pockets in the cross beams and then use silicon bronze screws as well as epoxy. This would less trouble than making cleats or using "L" angles and I can fill the pockets with epoxy afterwards.

In other news, the reason for the need to deal with these cross beams first is that I want to cut and size the floor strips I mentioned in the previous post. The floor by the head box will extend almost completely under the head box and support the toilet bucket. I need to get that sized and made so that I can finish making the other support pieces that are affected by it. I cut a bunch of the pieces yesterday and want to cut the remainders so I can start putting this side of the boat together soon. Nothing new as far as pictures go, but as soon as I have something significant, I will post.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

TomB
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby TomB » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:53 am

Hey Carl,

I don’t understand completely, I don’t even know which section has the head. But I will offer random thoughts anyway.

Since boats move around some, sometimes a lot, is the composting toilet going to be confined in some way to keep it from sliding? It would be a shame to christen your beautiful boat in that way.

I assume the sheet of ply shown in the photos would be adequate structurally if it wasn’t going to be in three pieces. So could you make the ply think it is still one piece? Add a 1”x2” cleat under the edge of the inboard length one of the narrow strips (1” under the strip and 1” to support the center strip) to provide edge support. Add a similar cleat under the length of one edge of the center strip. When installed, the edge cleat would support one edge of the center strip and the center strip cleat would slip under the second narrow strip and provide edge support while also locking down one side of the center strip.

It seems like there are a lot of things that should be on the boat but are always in the way, quart of oil, spark plugs and wrench, something to get a tire off the trailer, tow straps, on and on… The bilge might be a spot for some of the stuff you hope never to need. Thinking that way, latches might work better than a bunch of screws. Fashion a couple of small blocks to pivot on screws. The blocks would cam into notches in the seat skirts and lock down the second side of the center strip making the bilge accessible without tools.

Tom

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby chugalug » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:55 am

:D Maybe using metal bisquit(bisquit joinery) from Lee valley or Rockler or Home hardware might work.I'm sure you'll find something.After looking at the bisquit stuff,I might use that myself.Some of that knock down hardware. :roll:
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hoodman
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby hoodman » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:36 am

My thought is: Does the floor have to extend underneath the cabinetry? And if it does, just extend it outboard until the edge rests on the hull itself.

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby Jimbob » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:37 am

Hi Carl,
Re: your flooring
Take a look at my postings on Neeley's Barrelback Sacramento. On Page #6 it shows some underlying structure for my flooring. On page #4 you can see the sections (many) that make up my floor. It's 1/2" plywood also. There is a smaller section around the shifter, because I wanted to have access without removing other sections of the flooring in order to get access to it if I had to. I added additional support in that area so the floor would not flex there. I saddled my frames with 3 pieces of 4/4 mahogany to give plenty of support and places to screw into. There are a couple of "L" brackets (aluminum) here and there.
Hope this might help you in your design.
Jim
Jim Neeley
Sacramento, CA

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:49 am

Thanks for the feedback Tom, Tim, Matt, and Jim!

Before I answer, The ply that is in there now is not the final panel, simply a temporary piece until I can make the real thing. It is crap plywood and saves me from breaking my neck when stepping over the frames !!

TomB wrote:I don’t understand completely, I don’t even know which section has the head. But I will offer random thoughts anyway.

Since boats move around some, sometimes a lot, is the composting toilet going to be confined in some way to keep it from sliding? It would be a shame to christen your beautiful boat in that way.

I assume the sheet of ply shown in the photos would be adequate structurally if it wasn’t going to be in three pieces. So could you make the ply think it is still one piece? Add a 1”x2” cleat under the edge of the inboard length one of the narrow strips (1” under the strip and 1” to support the center strip) to provide edge support. Add a similar cleat under the length of one edge of the center strip. When installed, the edge cleat would support one edge of the center strip and the center strip cleat would slip under the second narrow strip and provide edge support while also locking down one side of the center strip.

It seems like there are a lot of things that should be on the boat but are always in the way, quart of oil, spark plugs and wrench, something to get a tire off the trailer, tow straps, on and on… The bilge might be a spot for some of the stuff you hope never to need. Thinking that way, latches might work better than a bunch of screws. Fashion a couple of small blocks to pivot on screws. The blocks would cam into notches in the seat skirts and lock down the second side of the center strip making the bilge accessible without tools. Tom


Tom, the head box is the one closest in the photos on the starboard side (just this side of the partition). The composting bucket will be secured from moving. The floor pieces that I was mentioning extend under the head box and form part of the floor that the bucket sets on. I'll try to describe the floor panel differently. It will consist of three pieces. One large center panel that runs the full length of the cabin, and two narrow strips (one on each side). The narrow strips are the parts that run under the cabinetry BY the head box, the narrow strip will be wider to form the floor under the head box. Supporting the floor is not a problem. The center panel is the removable portion and where it butts up against the narrow strips, is where I need to add additional support.

I am going to look at this a bit further this evening and perhaps it won't be an issue. But if it does indeed need support then I will add three cross beam supports perpendicular to the existing floor supports, but only between the inboard and outboard supports. There is no need for them in the center of the floor. These cross beam supports will be approximately 8 inches in length. How to attach them to the original supports was what I was looking for and I think I will be using the KREG pocket hole jig for that.

As for latches versus screws, I am considering that as well.

chugalug wrote::D Maybe using metal bisquit(bisquit joinery) from Lee valley or Rockler or Home hardware might work.I'm sure you'll find something.After looking at the bisquit stuff,I might use that myself.Some of that knock down hardware. :roll:


Tim, I will check them out.

hoodman wrote:My thought is: Does the floor have to extend underneath the cabinetry? And if it does, just extend it outboard until the edge rests on the hull itself.


Matt, see part of my answer above about the head box floor. But also, it gives me a place to set cleats for the sides to mount to. Also, I want some space between the edge of the center floor panel and the cabinetry to make it easier to get the panel out.

Jimbob wrote:Hi Carl,
Re: your flooring
Take a look at my postings on Neeley's Barrelback Sacramento. On Page #6 it shows some underlying structure for my flooring. On page #4 you can see the sections (many) that make up my floor. It's 1/2" plywood also. There is a smaller section around the shifter, because I wanted to have access without removing other sections of the flooring in order to get access to it if I had to. I added additional support in that area so the floor would not flex there. I saddled my frames with 3 pieces of 4/4 mahogany to give plenty of support and places to screw into. There are a couple of "L" brackets (aluminum) here and there.
Hope this might help you in your design.
Jim


Jim, I am considering making the center floor panel in three pieces but it would increase the number of floor supports needed. As it stands now, the floor is real solid.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

TomB
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby TomB » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:08 am

The composting bucket will be secured from moving.


I figured you had a way to keep the Black Ghost Ship "Poo" from setting sail.

A cleat attached to the underside of the narrow strips and extending a little inboard might be all you need to support the center panel.

Anxious to see what you come up with...

Tom

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:17 am

TomB wrote:
I figured you had a way to keep the Black Ghost Ship "Poo" from setting sail.

A cleat attached to the underside of the narrow strips and extending a little inboard might be all you need to support the center panel.

Anxious to see what you come up with...

Tom


That's what I was thinking as well. I am going to look at that closer tonight. I can always add the cross beam supports later if necessary.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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tcough
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby tcough » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:26 am

mrintense wrote:Thanks for the feedback Tom, Tim, Matt, and Jim!

It is crap plywood and saves me from breaking my neck when stepping over the frames !!


Interesting choice of plywood to use while working on the head :D

I see what you did there!
Happy Boating,
Tracy

Building a 19'-9" Flats Flyer


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