Biss's Malahini Build

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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neel thompson
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by neel thompson » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:01 am

I didn't realize this until recently, but Moeller does build aluminum fuel tanks to custom dimensions. I priced one out for my PB22 and was surprised how reasonable their price is. It is more than a standard plastic tank, but it won't break my bank, and will fit exactly where I need it. Just a thought.

Biss
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by Biss » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:08 am

Neel,

That was my "Plan B!" If there weren't so many USCG regulations I would fab one up myself. We employ several certified welders and have a pretty nice welding shop! I'm still hoping to work out the plastic version. It will be tight, but I think it is possible to make it work. Thanks for the advice regarding the custom tanks!

Biss

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by Bill Edmundson » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:26 am

My custom tanks were built by RDS Aluminum. I felt they were reasonable.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

Biss
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by Biss » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:23 am

It's been awhile since I posted. Work and family took priority over the holidays! Nevertheless, I have worked on the boat some over the past month. I am currently doing some of the interior work and had a question regarding stains. Since I am using both plywood and solid mahogany, I was thinking of staining the bright finished wood to even out the wood tones. Does anyone have recommendations for the proper satin? I have looked at Interlux and minwax. I will covering with epoxy so do I need to use water based stains? Need some help /advice before ordering the stains.


Thanks,
Biss

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Jimbob
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by Jimbob » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:57 am

Hi Biss,
There has been much discussion about adhesion problems with epoxy over oil based stain. People that use oil based stains put CPES epoxy on top of the stain as a sealer before continuing with the normal epoxy. I only have varnish over my stain. I have had success with interlux chris craft mahogany stain, and with Sandusky walnut stain. Both are oil based and are like "gel stains". You might have more working time with the oil based stains compared to water based stains. Also the oil based stains won't raise the grain like water based stains might. Staining plywood has always been a problem for me, it seems like it doesn't take the stain properly and ends up looking like stained plywood. They do sell mahogany plywood if you want to go that route for a matching look. Whatever you do, test the stain process with scraps. If you check the link to my build below (page 14), you can see what the stains mentioned above look like.
Jim
Jim Neeley
Building a Barrelback in Sacramento, CA
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28089#p172969

Sarnian
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by Sarnian » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:47 am

would be great to see pictures!

For stains - I used Interlux interstain Chris Craft Red, and Mahogany Brown (50:50) over African mahogany, I let this dry for about a week in 80 degree temps before coating twice with CPES - even after this time the first coat of CPES lifted the stain - this wasn't too noticeable except for a couple of places where there were CPES drips. I had to work these to blend in the resulting marks. Then I hit it with epoxy.

TomB
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by TomB » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:39 pm

Stain and CPES, good way to get a conversation started.

I was going to use Interlux filler stain and made test samples. The stuff needs thinning and it would be easy to not burnish it enough leaving pigment to float on the surface. That said, that's what I would use...

The Gougeon Brothers (West System) are the guys I rely on for advice regarding epoxy, they've been at it a long time, make the stuff, and build boats. Plus they write articles describing their tests, test methods, and results (they talk directly to my inner engineer). Here are two articles on the subject. www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/epoxy-adhe ... er-stains/ Following the test method for your chosen stain, then you'll know.

This is their article about penetrating epoxy, including their test results - www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/penetratin ... gend-myth/

Enjoy,

Tom

Biss
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by Biss » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:01 pm

I really appreciate the responses. I will likely give the interlux stains a shot. Ill try some test samples before I use in on the boat!

The sides of my boat will be dark blue, so im hoping to keep the bright work more in the red hues an not too brown. I really like the two tone color scheme of the walnut and red mahogany, but im afraid the dark brown will not look good with the blue paint. Thought i could possibly try to get a subtle two tone from two different mahagany stains. Is there much of a color difference in the cc red mahogany and the regular red mahogany stains that interlux produces?

Thanks again!

PeterG
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by PeterG » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:01 am

Biss, sounds like you've got a good plan going. I too am planning a similar dark blue hull and CC red stained deck and interior. You should try your process on some test pieces first and see how you like it. There is a runabout restoration book by Don Danenberg that describes how he puts his finishes on, very informative. Basically the same as what jimbob and sarnian describe above. One thing I saw recently though is Danenberg has stopped using CPES as the sealer on the stain, because it was lifting the stain and swirling it around when applying the CPES. He has since switched to Petit EZ wood sealer. Food for thought.
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
Griffin's Law: Murphy was an optimist.

TomB
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by TomB » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:19 am

CPES has a lot of solvents that will return stain to a liquid state. This is their SDS www.rotdoctor.com/products/msdspdf/CPES-CW-B.pdf

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sscobra
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by sscobra » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:10 pm

I stained my Monaco with the Interlux Chris Craft stains (check out my posts, "Making progress on my Monaco", page 34, I believe), followed by two coats of CPES (Smith's version). I only waited a few days for the stain to dry before I put on the CPES. I had absolutely no problem with it. It is as thin as water, so I just rolled it on in thin coats. I didn't rub it in so I didn't experience any stain swirling or thinning. I might have got some stain on the roller I applied the CPES with, but can't remember for sure. So if I did, it was very little. It is not uncommon for stain to transfer a little to a rag when applying a top finish over it, but it has never been an issue for me, because I don't rub the top finish in hard. TomB is absolutely right...CPES is very nasty, so it requires care using it. It is important that you apply it in a well ventilated area and wear a respirator mask. CPES is normally used on bare wood so it can soak into the wood to seal it and harden any rotted areas. Here it might soak in a little through the stain, but it mostly just forms a thin layer of epoxy on top of the oil stain to seal it in so the layers of epoxy you apply later will stick to it. All I can say is it worked fine for me. I have no experience with the Petit EZ wood sealer, so I can offer no advise on its use. If Danenberg is using it, than it probably works well. One final comment on the CPES. I had a hard time at one point in finding the Smith's version of CPES, so I ordered another companies version of it (don't want to mention their name here) and had no luck with it at all. It just wasn't the same. So if you use CPES, get the Smith's version. Skip
Built the Glen-L Monaco, 2016.

Biss
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by Biss » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:03 pm

Thanks again for the help/recommendations!

Below are a couple pics of the tank placement and the beginnings of the interior finishout. As expected there is not much headroom above the tank to install the fill tube. I have found some fuel hose that has a 4" bend radius. Even with that, the deck hardware may be closer to the middle than I really want. I still think it will work with some tweaks.
20190112_134824.jpg
20190112_134926.jpg

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hoodman
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by hoodman » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:57 pm

That's looking really good.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
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footer
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by footer » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:46 am

Looking good. Nice tank. Fit's in there perfect. I wonder if you can make a stainless S-tube with rubber boots at each end for your fill spout? I still have to get a tank, but mine is going in the back.

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DrBryanJ
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Re: Biss's Malahini Build

Post by DrBryanJ » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:30 am

How do you plan to hold down your tank? I was planning on using the aluminum brackets from Moeller. They make it hard to get the tank as far forward as yours. Also, it looks like you didn't leave any room for expansion. From side to side you might get as much as an inch. forward to back a little less. Also, Moeller recommends placing tank on a neoprene mat. That will take up a little more height.
Bryan

Building a malahini "Mona Lisa"

My wife said "If I build a boat, she's getting a divorce."

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