Glen-L.com

Clay Korn,
I, too, feel your pain! But please do not give up on the forum.

Firstly because I want to know what you finally decide! You see, I have been sitting on a set of Coastal Cruiser study plans for some number of years now. Then I met Ray at the first Gathering, and along with all the other boat builders you can get overloaded with ideas, nevermind opinions!

But that is all good, because it actually makes you think even harder.

My dream changed when I left GA and my three car garage. But it doesn't mean it won't come back someday.

Every woman is looking for the perfect man. We know that doesn't exist (well, not since my wife took me off the market ) It is much the same with your boat. We want the absolute PERFECT boat...but maybe it just doesn't exist. So I agree with the other boaters here, make a list of what you want, and then compromise where you must, otherwise build it to the exact specs YOU determine.

I would also like to do the great loop one day. Does that mean that when i am done I would wish I had a planing hull rather than a plowing hull (or whatever they call it )

You might find it really interesting to search the boats that do the ICW. They have all sorts of guides that tell you what the "best" boat is for the loop. But it in the end it is your choice.

My big three would be : Comfort, ease of handling, "adequate" power.

Again, thanks for joining the forum, I hope we have not led you astray. Do not be afraid to ask a "pointed" question. Just say: Look guys tell me what the difference is between A and B period. We will not be offended.

And thanks for bumping up the Coastal Cruiser thread, you have got me thinking (AGAIN)....

Steve

Raymacke
Thanks. Yes I did make the radar arch, out of plywood and then glassed. I used 1/2" on top and bottom and 1/8" ply on the rounded corners applied cross grain.

Humor me please, I have a dream....

I still want a flybridge!

Is there any reason at all that I could not fabricate a removable fly bridge for the Coastal Cruiser? It would be a rather elaborate knock-down type affair which would stow easily. It would look like a permanent addition when it is up, but could be removed to allow clearance for bridges etc.

How you ask? Well, we have plenty of fly by wire planes out there, how about using "wireless" remotes etc, for throttles and steering...isn't that possible?

Steve

Take a look at Bob Maskel's Sea Knight, he sorta made a removable fly-bridge.....Chime in Bob, show'm how it's done...Dwain the SKIIIIIIIIIII KIIIIING....

One of the items at the top of my list for my trawler was a Flybridge. When I narrowed the design search to the True Grit my thought was just to stick a minimal structure up there along with the necessary controls and let it bump. After I have seen a few other boats of similar size with one. BUT knowing this was a major design change I decided to give Ken Hankinson a call and run it by him (he was still selling plans at that point). His replay was - "Absolutely Not!" His concern was too much weight being carried too high. He explained the hull is very shallow and has just and 8'6" beam. Is said the rolling action would be seriously aggravated and could cause it to capsize. And it wasn't just talking about the weight of the station. The weight of the captain and admiral are also a big factor he added. When I thought about the other designs I have seen in this size were all deep Vs.

Plus, trailering would be a problem because of the height - A major consideration.

Also, when I started looking in to the cost for setting up a dual helm the amount of dollars surprised me. I recently read about a build of a 27' Surf Scoter (Devlin) that with a cockpit steering station and his estimate for cost to add it was about $5000. I do think there is some fly by wire throttles available (aren't cheap!) but can't remember any steering. But then again, my wireless remote for my autopilot sort of does this although I sure wouldn't try to maneuver with it in anything but wide open spaces.

For me I decided best just to let go. That ugly word "compromise" had again thwarted my plans.

I guess a breakdown unit of some type could be fabricated. If it was kept very light AND would only be used on fairly calm water, and.........


Something I thought interesting about Surf Scoter the build I mentioned above. The guy kept good records of the time involved. He spent 2200 hours total but 600 of those were SANDING. 600! That's 8 hrs a day, 7 days a week for 2 1/2 months - just sanding!!!! That's why I don't keep track of hours - just don't want to know that.

http://www.signworx.com/boatbuilding.htm
http://www.passagemaker.com/MagazineandEvents/TheMagazine/ReadArticle/tabid/277/articleID/1352/Default.aspx

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So Many Rivers,
So Little Time....

Ray would you be so kind as to point out the page on your building blog of the details for your engine and swim platform setup. Thanks

Claykorn, after reading your question I understand what you are saying. Both the Coastal Cruiser 25 and the Hercules 24 have very similar hull shapes but very different horsepower recommendations. Why? That's a good question. Sadly I have no clue either. But then again I have absolutely no experience with boats. Im pretty stuck on the Bo-jest myself, but knowing the answer to your question may open up other designs I have not considered due to the high horsepower requirements for them. I am interested in low power, low speed cruising on rivers and ICW so i have overlooked all of these high HP designs.

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Its easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission.

Over the past year I have had several email request for information on how I handled the "bracket" type mounting of the O/B on my True Grit as I had not covered it on my blog. Oyster's above request gave me a little nudge and I decided to put a page together to explain how I handled the situation.

Tonight I tried to post it but found my ISP is having a problem with their FTP server and I can't upload. I'll have to give them a call in the morning to get it worked out. I'll post here when I have it uploaded.

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So Many Rivers,
So Little Time....

Finally got the new entry posted. Here is the link - http://www.egyptian.net/~raymacke/TG/Bracket.html

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So Many Rivers,
So Little Time....

Thanks Ray for your detailed and informative reply and photo. One more thing if I must be so bold to ask is do you have a shot of the finished rigging of the motor? You mentioned about the width and all the controls fitting. But I take it that you used hydraulic steering? I don't think the width is a big deal for you the way that you did it. I see you allowed the bottom to continue on the same plane, or so it looks like, which can give you more lift or should give more lift in normal planing hulls anyway. As a side note since you mentioned other commerically built hulls with the aluminum brackets, for the bigger engines and with the commercially built aluminum brackets, they add flotation in them to help some of the issues of additional weights hanging off the transom too. Maybe this will help others if they go that route. I see great potential when done properly for what you have done.

http://www.stainlessmarine.com/index.ph ... t&Itemid=1


Actually the engine brackets and the offset that comes with them also allows the engine to sit higher than the normal cavitation plate being in line with the centerline keel plane. They improve some performances in some boats too.

Pleas allow me to add my opinionated thoughts here, in what runs through my mind and has been running through my mind since I read your initial content on your setup and personal build. Heck others can allow the stringer system to continue through the iniital transom skins all the way out to the engine transom in the bracket too that will assist long term to minimize any fatigue, or at least would add a measure of confidence. I have added a shot showing what I did early on before I had consisted going the route of adding a built in home fabricated platform and bracket. I may go back and and scarf on some additional stringer. If you also notice I left a bit of wood in the initial skin, which is also the area for the actual framing inside. The shot shows small amounts of the stringer system which would have been incorporated into the additonal skin in the engine area further enforcing that area in faster power boat applications and rougher ocean running. We must also consider the amount of add on too, to facilitate full trim up too. So check the engine trim up distance and also keep in mind if you are also adding a swim platform, you need enough room outward to allow safe room for standing up and stepping over the fixed transom height and its angle too.

Oyster, you make several good points. Continuing structure through the transom would certainly addition strength. Also as you mention the platform width is important. I wanted to have enough clearance to allow me to walk between the O/B hood and the transom when trimmed up. There is not a lot but still workable. When trimmed down there is more than enough.




One of the reasons I went with hydraulic was a concern with how a conventional cable would exit the transom and attach to the engine. Note the position of the tube for the drag link. Normally the cable would attach there and make a 90 degree bent to enter the hull. This would put it right on top the starboard platform. My cockpit storage layout dictated the best exit from the cockpit was also on the starboard so we would be stepping over the transom on on to the surface with the stiff cable sitting on it. Not a good idea for a number of reasons.

I thought of narrowing the platforms so the cable could bend down and go under it but I wanted to mount a boarding ladder below the platform and the cable would be in the way. The hydraulic system solved this problem as I routed the small tubing to the other side away from the step out area. As you can see in the photos on the blog page listed below it does sit up on the port platform a little but it has not been a problem so far.

As to the splashwell clearance - yes, I did install hydraulic steering (BayStar) but in my situation clearance was still a problem. In the first photo below the engine is trimmed down and all is well and there are no problems with the cylinder and linkage moving.



But note the situation when trimmed up. As you can see the arm would be contacting the platform if it were not going into the well. Actually, this isn't the best photo to show this but it would be into the surface about a 1/4". Also, note the O/B is mounted about 1" above the top of the mounting board. If it were sitting lower on top of it there would be even less clearance for the arm.



One fix would be to make the platforms either lower or narrower to provide the need clearance. I believe that is what Rosborough has done.

I added these photos and several to the same blog page listed above and hope they are helpful - http://www.egyptian.net/~raymacke/TG/Bracket.html

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So Many Rivers,
So Little Time....

Thanks Ray for the continued detailed description of what works and what to consider too that gives many something to think about in their own custom builds. The devil is always in the details and the late night pondering to get things right surely helps to minimize some mistakes down the road too, stuff that needs to be ripped back out and improved. YOu have personally given me something to ponder for sure. Frankly I would have no problems with the rigging and even going with the hydraulics since we have a lot of used junks laying around these days in this current climate of too many boats and not enough salvagers. that I could probably find even a used unit and would not break the bank for me. My problem is that I am out of room for the addendum since my saw and tool compartment which is just behind what you see needs to be accessible. Adding another 22" minimum would be a real headknocker in the building stage if I was not fully awake either. Now back to thinking,,,,,,,,,,Where there is a will, sometimes there is a way for sure,,,,,,Hum..............

I got the boat almost framed up yesterday. So I will need to make a decision within the next week to which way I plan on going.

Amen to that!

One thing I wish I had done and probably at some point will "rip back out and improve" is adding a step through on the transom. Access from the platform to the cockpit is not "bad" but it could be better. There is a step on the inside and the additional height does help when making the transition but we don't actually step through as much as swing our leg over. Now it is just a minor annoyance but I fear the ever quickening aging process will make it more of a concern. Adding a cutout would allow a true step through.

_________________
So Many Rivers,
So Little Time....

The devil made me do it. Well no it was Ray's fault.

Okay I made a decision today, well my commander in chief and I did after consultation concerning the proper engine. There are lots of packages around of older boat motor and trailer that runs peanuts on the dollars for anything new. So we will gamble on finding a late model larger one on some bass boat and throwaway the boat. They are really cheap when the sparkles are all faded, or so we are finding out. So we are on the hunt for a bigger motor than we had planned in the beginning, even if we have to rebuild something to a new stage on a good leg. Things are really cheap these days.
So anyway we decided to stretch the hull another bit by moving the transom skin back in half way of the required motor well area in normal setups and add back to the stringers the additional amount and build in a swim platform-motor bracket into the transom. with enough offset for the motor to trim up making the boat an additional 13 inches longer. If you add to the amount that I moved the transom skin in,11 iches this gives me 21 inches of trim room. This also nets me additional room on deck from the normal well setup like I had on my last one.

The well sides will be secured to framing and two skins inside and out after cutting notches in the existing skins to attach the sides to. Then I will cut and glue up the normal widths for the actual engine transom to the sides that ends up hanging back off the skin. Then two side swim platforms will further secure the homemade motor bracket. I tied the add on to the stringers on top too with a solid wood batten. The next step is to extend the keel, scarfing in an additional piece also going back into the foward section of the transom skin thats in place.



I have the line drawn for the height of the swim platform and motor well and will work back down from that with all the support framing. With the bottom sheets of plywood extending all the way out too, hopefully I will have no hickups and loose the motor.

I may as well add my progress. This is the jest of what I ended up with. While there are a lot of details and laminates all woven together, the engine transom is ready for skinning after I finish the doublers under the bottom area at the stern that reinforces the actual bottom planking. The battens shows the height at the platform and the hull planking will continue all the way back. . I still need to face the sides of the engine and platform transom, completely sandwiching the sides and additional laminates inside. I will cleat each corner and bolt to the interior to additional cleats. In the motor well area I am using double layers of 9mm weaving a layer across the stringers before I install the actual bottom plank. They will come up to the next partisan bulkhead foward of the full transom. The framing is also enlayed into the motor transom layers to hopefully further stiffen the entire component.




Hopefully you can see the first layer in place.