Cedar Frames

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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KevinGot2Sail
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Location: Tacoma, Washington

Cedar Frames

Post by KevinGot2Sail » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:07 pm

I am going to use clear cedar for the frames of the Jolly Roger...I found a man with a mill that will custom cut the lumber- for $2 a board ft. The price is right...a couple of local retailers wanted $5-$7 a board ft. Going to sticker the material and air dry it in the shed.
Comments?
What one man can do, another man can do...
Jolly Roger in process...

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kens
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Location: Coastal Georgia

Re: Cedar Frames

Post by kens » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:53 pm

paint the end grains so that it not dries out thru ends and splits.
cedar is not typically considered a structural for heavy members, I would mill it a bit thicker than mahogany or oak.
Example, rather than use 4/4 stock finished to nominal 3/4"; I would mill 5/4 and finish it full 1"
Oak is over rated, everything about it takes extra time; then it warps, splits or checks !!! :roll:

red
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Re: Cedar Frames

Post by red » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:17 pm

youll need 8/4 finished for enough strength for the frames and such for a boat that size espically if you are going to use it in the sea also at that thickness it will take up to a full year to air dry unless you are some where that the humidity stays really low and there isnt much rain also make sure you coat the ends with exterior paint as Kens said

KevinGot2Sail
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Re: Cedar Frames

Post by KevinGot2Sail » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:42 pm

Okay...I was considering having them cut a bit thicker- but the paint on the end, never would have crossed my mind...
Thanks guys.
Kevin
What one man can do, another man can do...
Jolly Roger in process...

slug
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Re: Cedar Frames

Post by slug » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:38 am

The only thing I would even consider using cedar for is a CANOE! It is definately not suitable for the Jolly Roger...regardless of the price.

Doug

Moeregaard
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Re: Cedar Frames

Post by Moeregaard » Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:01 am

I'm with slug on this one. I dragged out my copy of "Boatbuilding with Plywood" and, of the five species of cedar listed, only Port Orfard and Alaskan cedars are described as "moderately strong." I didn't see any recommendations for using any of these for frames.

-Mark Shipley
A boat is just a wooden box with no right angles.

KevinGot2Sail
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:44 pm
Location: Tacoma, Washington

Re: Cedar Frames

Post by KevinGot2Sail » Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:34 am

Well, crud. I will do some research..
What one man can do, another man can do...
Jolly Roger in process...

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kens
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Re: Cedar Frames

Post by kens » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:02 am

slug wrote:The only thing I would even consider using cedar for is a CANOE! It is definately not suitable for the Jolly Roger...regardless of the price.

Doug
What KIND of cedar?
I believe the above statement is too subjective, as different woods vary in strength even among same species.
Example: white oak gets all the press for being a good boat wood, I don't like it. The only thing I would use oak for is furniture, cabinet trim and workbenches. That is my subjective opinion and I'm sticking to it.
I used Cypress for motor stringers and it gets no press at all.
I suggest you take some samples of various woods such as oak, mahog, fir, pine, etc., etc. along with samples of the prospect cedar and do some strength tests. Cut them up like a grade school rulers and test the strength of each and see how your cedar samples compare to others.
I did this myself and found honduran mahog weak (moderately strong), other mahogany's was strong, yellow pine stronger than white oak, cypress equal to good mahogany.

Also, when picking up a piece of said Cedar does it feel very light? very heavy? moderately heavy? I noticed in my strength testing that wood weight followed closely with its strength, the lighter the weaker it was, and vice-versa.
Oak is over rated, everything about it takes extra time; then it warps, splits or checks !!! :roll:

KevinGot2Sail
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Location: Tacoma, Washington

Re: Cedar Frames

Post by KevinGot2Sail » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:54 pm

Well that is definitely food for thought....and may do just that...I did physically visit my "lumber guy" today and inspected his mill, timber, and product. He also has available, (which I didn't previously know) Spruce and Doug Fir that appear to be 'clear' as well- same price. So I'm still shopping.
I appreciate the input from everyone, even the nay sayer's, as I don't want a problem with the boat down the road. I think I will use some of this Cedar in other places in the boat- I do like the many good qualities that make Cedar what it is.
What one man can do, another man can do...
Jolly Roger in process...

noddyone
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Location: IRELAND

Re: Cedar Frames

Post by noddyone » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:06 am

I've seen people here use tar (pitch/bitumen) on the ends, they say it's even better than paint. Small boats owners on the rivers around here (Ireland) coat the bottoms (of the boats!) with tar to seal leaks and as a sort of anti-fouling. Messy stuff to use though.

Gunner
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Re: Cedar Frames

Post by Gunner » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:20 am

The fir should be the choice and readily avaliable at a decent price.

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Andy Garrett
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Re: Cedar Frames

Post by Andy Garrett » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:57 am

Strength is just one part of the equation and perhaps a lesser part. Once the frame is built, the overall strength should be a function of the frame design and where loads are carried, etc. To my mind, fastener holding ability and response to structural adhesives are more important in this application.

Now, I have a cedar fence in my back yard. If I go pull on board with any effort, I know it will will strip the screws out of the cedar horizontal members. I know this because the nieghbor boys are fond of baseball, and they've knocked out more than a few boards over the years while practing their pitches.

I guess it depends greatly on the species and growth rate.

My two bits...
Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

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