Building The Vera Cruise

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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Hercdrvr
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by Hercdrvr » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:32 am

I re-read your post about gph in a 115hp 2 stroke. Three gallons per hour will push you around at hull speed plus a few, but no chance of planning on 3 gph. Another thing about 2 strokes, they kinda run like shit at lower rpm’s. At idle, my 90 sounds like it’s about to puke some parts out the exhaust compared to a 4 stroke or E-TEC. Maybe a smooth, quiet, efficient 60 or 90hp is the ticket for your cruising needs. Not telling anyone what they should do, just talking about boats with you.
This is a cool site for outboard fuel consumption.
https://www.boat-fuel-economy.com/evinr ... us-gallons
Matt B

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by TomB » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:56 am

mrintense wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:48 am
IN other things, I am starting on the process of making the roof beams. More accurately, I am working on the laminating jig. From what I have read, there is no accurate way to allow for spring back of curved laminations but that using more laminations and thinner ones minimizes the spring back. I'll do the first one and see how it goes. If it's too much I'll adjust. The plan is to use blocks screwed into a flat surface to set the curves and then wrap the laminations around them and hold in place with clamps.
I didn't get much spring back laminating chair backs (similar curve to your roof maybe). My chair backs where 5 layers of 5/32" Santos mahogany 4"x30". I found that clamping at 4" spacing wasn't enough, gaps developed between layer. Three or four cauls made from hardboard spread the clamping load enough to close the gaps.

My process was: form blocks screwed to the bench, a couple of hardboard layers (with glue in-between) screwed to the blocks to provide a continuous backing for the lamination, a butt-block screwed at one end to start the stack,packing tape as a form release, glue all the butting surfaces of the lamination, plastic sheet as a form release, the clamping cauls, and then every clamp I own.

Tom

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mrintense
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by mrintense » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:51 pm

Thanks Matt and Tom for the responses.

Matt, I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 GPH figure was low for on plane. Interesting observation about two strokes and slower speeds. I'll have to look into that more.

Tom, thanks for the pointers on the jig. I think the idea of using the hardwood between the laminations and the form blocks might be useful in smoothing out any inconsistencies in the curve. I've made a lot effort to get the curve right and the form blocks in the right position so we'll see. This picture shows where I am at so far. Similar to the rig you mentioned except that I am using a reinforced piece of plywood as my bench is not large enough. Still need to do some more work on it, but it's getting there.

The wood in this picture is just a scrap piece I put in there for a test. The actual laminations will be thinner. I have plenty of clamps so no worries there.

IMG_20190629_153028.jpg
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

TomB
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by TomB » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:55 pm

A couple of more thoughts you've probably considered...

Bowing the big laminate stack puts a lot of force on the blocks making them want to roll into the force, important that they be REALLy screwed down.

Wet epoxy makes the laminate pieces slippery and the pieces start to slide out of alignment (up off the bench). A few boards perpendicular to the bow direction, screwed to the bench clamp and hold the laminated beam in alignment.

Tom

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DrBryanJ
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by DrBryanJ » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:20 am

Just a thought Carl, but why not get a 2x10 or 2x12 and cut your curve.. Put your laminations between the two cuts and clamp everything together? or just use one side and clamp to it instead of blocks?
Bryan

Building a malahini "Mona Lisa"

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by mrintense » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:38 am

DrBryanJ wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:20 am
Just a thought Carl, but why not get a 2x10 or 2x12 and cut your curve.. Put your laminations between the two cuts and clamp everything together? or just use one side and clamp to it instead of blocks?
I actually considered this and a similar idea of making the form from plywood cut to shape. I decided on the blocks for two reasons. First, it's relatively easy to change the curve if spring back becomes an issue. Secondly, cutting a curve would almost certainly need additional sanding or planing and I just didn't feel like doing that. But mainly, I wanted to be able to quickly adapt to curve changes if necessary.
Carl
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by mrintense » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:37 pm

Well I made some progress today. I worked out the mock up for the aft cabin interior and what size fuel tank to buy (which I have since purchased).

The wife and I went around and around about built in bench seating versus an open floor plan and movable seating which could be stowed away. My concern with built in was the same as it was for the forward cabin, lack of space. However, after doing the mock ups and thinking through all the advantages and disadvantages of both approaches, I decided to go with the built ins.

One of the more difficult things to figure out was how to store the fuel tank, i.e. what size and how much room would I need to allow for it. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with the area where it was going to be stored (across from the helm). I've decided on matching captain's type chairs, one mounted on top of the box containing the fuel tank, and the other on a raised platform.

The raised platform will also provide a place to store a removable table and pole. A bench seating with storage underneath will wrap around the back and port sides.

The mock ups in the picture don't show all the details but they are sufficient to get the idea across. One obvious missing detail is space in front of the fuel box for the leg's of the person seated on that side. However there is room for this as well.

I also did some mocking up of the aft end. There will be a storage compartment on each side . On the port side it will house an ice chest. On the starboard side I am not sure what I will use it for just yet, but there appears to be room for a small Honda generator if I decide to go that route.

IMG_20190630_135643.jpg
IMG_20190630_134030.jpg
These compartments in the motorwell section will provide room for an ice chest built in and something else
These compartments in the motorwell section will provide room for an ice chest built in and something else
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

hoodman
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by hoodman » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:20 pm

Carl, that interior layout it looking good. If you can get a 19 gallon tank in there you'll be just fine. My 2 stroke ETEC is equal to or more efficient than a four stoke outboard. I have a 12 gallon tank. More than enough for a day on the lake. It also runs smooth at any rpm. Shifting F-N-R is also smooth and effortless. Basically all the old quirks of 2 strokes have been ironed out. And the benefits have increased. Only needing maintenance every three years and auto winterizing are huge.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
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mrintense
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by mrintense » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:30 pm

hoodman wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:20 pm
Carl, that interior layout it looking good. If you can get a 19 gallon tank in there you'll be just fine. My 2 stroke ETEC is equal to or more efficient than a four stoke outboard. I have a 12 gallon tank. More than enough for a day on the lake. It also runs smooth at any rpm. Shifting F-N-R is also smooth and effortless. Basically all the old quirks of 2 strokes have been ironed out. And the benefits have increased. Only needing maintenance every three years and auto winterizing are huge.
Thanks Matt for the info about the Evinrude. I also just read something about the new 2020 models which are the G2 variety and these are even smoother at all RPM ranges. Since I am at least 18 months away from buying a motor, I'll have time to do more research, but I am attracted to the Evinrude for the reasons you mentioned and because they have great torque.

I purchased a Moeller 22 gallon tank after carefully considering the various sizes and how I would be using the area. So I think I will be fine for fuel storage.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Milhouse
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by Milhouse » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:52 pm

You are making great progress Carl! I really like your mockups.

If you are doing bent laminations then I recommend MDF for the Jig; works like a champ. You can make one for each side so you get even clamping pressure. Cover it all in packing tape so your work does not stick.
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
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mrintense
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by mrintense » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:56 am

Thanks JIm.

I will be continuing on the roof beams after Friday so I'll be looking into what I can do about maintaining even clamping pressure. The curve is a fairly large radius so I don't anticipate any real problems this time around.Even the 1/4 inch thick scrap piece in the last picture took the curve easily.
Carl
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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DrBryanJ
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by DrBryanJ » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:23 am

I like your interior ideas. The mock ups are great. I'll have to steal that when I get to doing my interior. I have ideas in my head, but don't know if they will work.
Bryan

Building a malahini "Mona Lisa"

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mrintense
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by mrintense » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:30 am

DrBryanJ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:23 am
I like your interior ideas. The mock ups are great. I'll have to steal that when I get to doing my interior. I have ideas in my head, but don't know if they will work.
Thanks Bryan,

I was fortunate to get twenty one free 4' by 8' sheets of 1/4 poster board leftover from a business that left the building I work in. This occurred about 6 years ago and I've been hanging on to them since for just this purpose. Ideas in the head are necessary and that's how I start out as well, but there's nothing like seeing something in 3D to help visualize things. And it's easy to try out different ideas.

For example, my helm mock up was done about 6 months ago and I only had a rough idea of what I wanted. The current design has many shortcomings and is not what I want for a final design. Now that I have more information, I will be making a new mockup before committing to wood. This way I can incorporate what I've learned and decided on since then. I still have at least a dozen of the poster board sheets left so it's an easy decision to do this.

One final advantage is that you can use tape or hot glue guns to assemble ideas. Only real downsides is that the material is very subject to humidity (curls) and cannot support you if you want to test out ideas such as seat heights.
Carl
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by mrintense » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:08 am

This morning I was all ready to get started on the cabin roof beam laminations. I went to my local hardwood retailer and purchased two slabs of 2 inch thick African mahogany, 8 feet long each. The idea was to cut them into approximately 5/16" thick strips on the long ends so that they would end up approximately 2" wide, 5/16" thick and 8 feet long.

I knew already that my table saw was incapable of cutting these in one shot so I resolved to cut them one side , then flip them over and cut the other side. I knew that they would be rough and had already figured on planing them down to a final thickness of 3/16". I also purchased a new ripping blade for the saw.

IMG_20190705_092952.jpg

Well of course, the best laid plans of mice and men.............................. :? :?

I spent some time first insuring that one edge was flat and square. Then I started cutting. The first one through did fine until near the end when the roller support fell over and the last 6 inches got a bit mangled. Okay because I need approximately 6 feet final lengths, but not ideal.

So I braced the roller stand with cinder blocks and that helped. The cut surface was a bit uneven but still greater than the final 3/16" I will need. So far okay.

Second one started cutting and the thermal overload shut down the table saw before I completed the cut on one side. Placed fans around the saw and let them cool it off for awhile. Reset the thermal switch and finished the cut. Flipped the board over and cut the second side but ended up with a noticeable step. Aaargh! But again still greater than the final 3/16". However..............

The saw sounded a bit odd and at first I didn't pay enough attention to it. I had to slightly increase the thickness of the next cut in order to leave enough material on the cut off piece to compensate for the step from the previous piece. I managed to get through this piece as well on both sides.

Got ready to start the fourth piece , started up the table saw and begin smelling something burning. Smoke started coming out of the saw. Shut it down immediately. Cannot turn the blade by hand now. This happened to me several years ago with this same saw. I suspect it's the bearings failing again so I will be looking into replacing them.

Unfortunately for the saw, African Mahogany is quite dense wood and the saw is probably just not up to the task. I was originally going to have the lumberyard mill these down to 1/4" rough cuts but I knew it would take a week to get them and I didn't want to wait. Guess I'll be waiting now!!!
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

gdcarpenter
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Post by gdcarpenter » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:54 pm

Sorry for the set back.

When I ran my shop I was ripping dense hardwood on my table saw and my employee start trying to get my attention. I was busy and essentially ignored him until I saw the smoke. There was no thermal breaker and the motor's windings were burning and smoking while still running.

Given the overheating I wonder if it worth trying to replace bearing, if they are the issue.
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