Building The Vera Cruise

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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psychobilly
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby psychobilly » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:02 pm

Carl, then ya have ta be careful the sweat off ya forehead don't drip on the paint area. :lol:

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mrintense
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:01 pm

Well this weekend was mostly a bust for boat work because of chores yesterday and a day at the lake today (whip out those tiny violins guys!)

However I did spend some time pondering the design and one of the things I am mostly settled on is where I am going to put all the electrical panels. Unless I can think of a reason not to, I am going to place them in the side area outboard and above the head box. This is an area approximately 36 by 24 by 6 which I am hopeful is large enough to accommodate panels and whatever else goes in there. Since I don't have most of this yet, it's rather hard to judge for sure.

So I thought I would ask the forum. For those of you who have built electrical systems that go a bit beyond nav lights, instruments and engine hookups, does this area sound large enough to place the equipment here? The 36 inch dimension is fore and aft while the 24 inch is up and down and the 6" is the thickness (depth).
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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jenko
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby jenko » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:27 pm

I like it Carl

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BayouBengal
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby BayouBengal » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:25 pm

It's amazing how fast a few wired components grow into a huge chunk of wires gathered up near your helm and fuse box, but this should be plenty enough space. Looking at your recent layout drawing, it appears that it will be close to the helm where most of the wires need to run through so it won't add unnecessarily to the length of your wire runs. It should also be out of the way, but not a place that's too difficult to get to when you have to access it.

TomB
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby TomB » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:09 am

Will you be hooking up to shore power? AC power to run a light, microwave, heater, fan, etc.? While also having DC for lights, and a few other things while off-shore? If so, an inverter or converter might be in your future. They require more depth and a ventilation fan and are often installed at ankle level.

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steveh41
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby steveh41 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:53 am

Carl,

It can be hard to judge how much space to allow for equipment. If you have a list of components, you can usually download dimension drawings and do a full size test layout like you did for the cabin. Be sure to allow room for terminal blocks and connectors...

If you want to do a custom panel, here's a reference:

www.frontpanelexpress.com

Regards,

Steve
The longest journey begins with a single step… then repeat as necessary!

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mrintense
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:07 pm

Well I miscalculated a little on the electrical area. I was studying my preliminary head box design and realized I wasn't accounting for the hand holds I had originally planned on mounting on the walls of both sides. With those taken into account (because they would have had to been at least 5" above the seat to be useful), the head box would have left me with about 6 inches of vertical height for the electrical, not the 24 I was thinking.

So during my daily walk today I started rethinking the head box design. I really want to keep the height of that box down so it doesn't make the cabin feel cramped and allows enough room for the electrical above and outboard of the box. The hand rails are a must given my wife's bad back. After consulting with her, we came up with the idea of mounting a hand hold / towel rack on the cabinet across the aisle (approximately 25 inches away).

This hand rail would be mounted horizontally and give her the support she needs. At the same time it allows me to considerably reduce the height of the head box. I also determined that I could make that box 1 inch shorter and still fit everything. So with all of that , it looks like the head box (when closed) will be the same height as the seat box just forward (when it has a 4 inch cushion on it). This leaves me with 14" of vertical room for the electrical. So new dimensions are 36 by 14 by 7. I'll do some more checking but hopefully this will work out as hoped.

in other work, I made some additional horizontal supports for the V berth platform to support the outer edges. These will tie into the other horizontal supports and give me additional fastening points as well as edge support.

I drilled the insert holes in the lower section floor supports, but the holes are still too small for the threaded inserts. I had to order a special sized drill bit to make them slightly larger. Once I get that and get the inserts installed, I am going to start assembling the V berth structure.

Here is a preview of what that will look like.

IMG_20170725_195521.jpg
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

neel thompson
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby neel thompson » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:29 am

Carl,,, It seems to me that you may be allowing way more room for your electrical panels than you might need. Though, after considering your attention to detail, I'm sure you have everything figured out. How many panels are you talking about, and how many switches/circuit breakers? A boat the size of the Vera Cruise probably would not require a huge AC panel, and maybe 10 or so circuit breakers for DC. I forget if you are thinking about having shore power for the AC stuff. If so, that might increase the size of the AC panel slightly. Just thoughts.... Neel

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:10 am

Carl

Planning electrical and the console is difficult. Counting all the circuits, and some spares, wiring layout and routing, instrument layout, radio, acc.plugs, interfacing equipment... Also, if you have a GPS that interface with a chart plotter, VHF, or instruments thru a NEMA2000 system, that will require a circuit. NEMA2000 needs a separate switched power feed. It WILL drain a battery.

If you buy a new outboard, over a certain size, they may require it to be installed by a dealer. They don't care about you plans. They seem to do a plug and the harness goes wherever.

Bill
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Jimbob
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby Jimbob » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:29 pm

Hi Carl,

This might work for you. It's an all in one solution, assuming you have the space. I have a 5th wheel travel trailer that has an ac converter that does the following: It converts the 110 (shore power) down to 12 volts. Pumps, lighting, the heater, the refrigerator all work on the 12 volts output. In addition it also charges the 12 volt house batteries. It also has circuits and breakers for 110, for the microwave, refrigerator, any appliances, tv, etc.

I also have a 12volt converter from HFT that I believe is 600 watts. I use it when we are dry camping and are running only on batteries.

Attached are photos of the converter. It measures 14" wide by 12" high. Don't know the depth, you can get that from a spec sheet. It has circuit breakers for the 110 circuits and fuses for the 12 volt circuits. You will be able to find this item at any RV outlet.

Hope this helps,

Jim
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Jim Neeley
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mrintense
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:14 pm

Thanks for the responses Neel, Bill, and Jim.

I will probably be going with shore power in addition to DC, although I may limit the AC to charging only. I don't see myself spending time sitting at the dock and using shore power that often. Admittedly, my knowledge of the electrical is still fairly limited. I bought the wiring diagram from Glen L for my boat and did some mods, but that was over a year ago and some things have changed in my requirements since then.

I mainly want to insure for now that I leave a space large enough to accommodate the equipment. The plan is to use the space outboard and above the head box, but that is dependent upon the final height of the head box. It's looking like it will work now, but if necessary, I may swap the head to the port side and use the space across from the head (where I plan on putting a cabinet).

Fortunately, all of this is occurring on paper at the moment, so the only thing lost so far is some time if I end up changing plans.

In other work I've started encapsulating the V berth structure parts. That will take several days since I want three coats and have to do each side separately.

IMG_20170727_163252.jpg
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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mrintense
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:02 pm

Today I hit 1500 hours on the build. Seems incredible and yet so far to go. Admittedly I am a slow builder and probably take longer to do things than some people.

The milestone was reached installing threaded inserts into the lower V berth floor supports. These are designed to be inserted into 25/64 inch holes and then accept screws. The manufacturer is EZ Lok and they have a special tool that you have to buy to insert the inserts. Here's my take on this.

IMG_20170731_161653.jpg
Here is an insert with the special manufacturer tool.


The problem with this tool is that it relies upon two slots cut in the top of the insert for all the driving force. Driving these into hardwood gets to a point where the force required exceeds the strength of the slots and they chip out. I knew about this going into this but thought I would try one first. Sure enough, they did chip.

Fortunately, there is a work around. A nut is threaded onto a screw that is then threaded into the insert. Using a socket and ratchet on the nut gives plenty of strength to drive these all the way in. You just need to make sure they are straight as you start driving them in. Adjust a little for the first few turns to keep them perpendicular to the surface.

IMG_20170731_161426.jpg
A threaded insert with a screw and nut combination for driving in the insert.


Here is the end results after installation. They still need a bit of clean up.

IMG_20170731_161839.jpg


Overall, if I were not interested in being able to remove the floor, I probably would not have bothered with these, but they do give you the option if you are interested in being able to remove a part. I plan on using 316 stainless screws when I install the floor.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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BayouBengal
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby BayouBengal » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:32 pm

This is precisely how my flooring along with almost all interior non-structural components are installed. I have the tool also, and it's nearly useless. I say nearly because it is of some use for starting off the inserts vertically straight even though it won't fully drive them. Looks like you're using fairly small inserts as did I. In large part, I used #8-32tpi inserts. To best drive them, I found some torx head screws and used two backseated nuts.

We're both using brass inserts with SS screws. The SS inserts are hard to find and very expensive; that's why I used brass. However, I do have some concern about dissimilar metal corrosion between the two over time. Just something I'll keep an eye and worse case scenario may someday have to replace all the brass inserts with SS.

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mrintense
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:51 pm

I'm hoping that the use of stainless screws will delay the onset of corrosion long enough for me to make it a regular inspection item and keep it at bay. And yes, I am making a maintenance manual as I build my boat and keeping track of things like this!! :D :D

It's been a slow week building. Had to deal with a fender bender on my daughter's car (she's okay), dog needed to go to the vet, heat has been unbearable until today (raining), and many other errands this week.

I've got the V berth structural members encapsulated and need to get them installed. I am hoping that I make a dent on that this weekend.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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chugalug
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby chugalug » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:40 am

:D Looking good ,Carl! don't make it too nice or it'll live its life on a trailer in a boat show.Add a scratch somewhere so you won't be afraid to use it.
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