Rampage vs. tornado

Designs for inboard or outboard power

Moderator: BruceDow

Rampage or Tornado?

Rampage
3
43%
Tornado
4
57%
 
Total votes: 7

Denon Osterman
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:58 am
Location: toronto, CAN

Rampage vs. tornado

Postby Denon Osterman » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:39 pm

alright, so for my next boat, beeing the young, reckless teenager that i am :D , ice decided to go with eiother the rampage or the tornado, but of course cant decide which. any opinions on either/comparisons/ups and downs are welcome. thanks a lot!

User avatar
Dave Grason
Posts: 3762
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:19 am
Location: Nashville, Tn.

Postby Dave Grason » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:20 pm

Unless something's not showing up in the pictures that IS showing up in the plans, the 2 boats are virtually identical. The Rampage has the option of being built with a jet drive which you may like.

Personally, I'm crazy for the V-drives. So in that case, these 2 boats would be almost identical. Maybe someone that's actually built one of them would chime in here.
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

Denon Osterman
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:58 am
Location: toronto, CAN

Postby Denon Osterman » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:27 pm

yeah..tehy look pretty much identical...im asuming they cost the same? also...why are v-drives so popular? potentially if someone could also clue me in on the differences between
-v-drives
-jet drives
-surfuce drives
-outdrives

id think surface drives would be the fastest, and outdriuves the most practical...so are jet drive and v-drive boats so common/popular? im probably missing somehting...

raydr
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: Shelburne, Vermont

Postby raydr » Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:24 pm

I am presently building Rampage to be used as a jet. I will power it with a sb chevy, and an AT 309 pump. I agree the boats look nearly identical. The only diffenence I can see it that Rampage has plans for a jet, which means a keel that is 12 inches wide for five feet from the transom, if used as a jet. From the pictures and descriptions, they look identical.

User avatar
Dave Grason
Posts: 3762
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:19 am
Location: Nashville, Tn.

Postby Dave Grason » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:08 pm

Denon Osterman wrote:...why are v-drives so popular? potentially if someone could also clue me in on the differences between
-v-drives
-jet drives
-surfuce drives
-outdrives


Well to begin with, I don't think that jets and V-drives are all THAT popular except in certain circles. But in mainstream boating, outdrives are definately the most popular for inboard applications. I'm certainly not the end all expert here but I would say that the main advantage (or at least one of the main advantages) is that the entire drive train can be installed in one operation with an outdrive. I'm sure that I/Os were developed in an effort to cut manufacturing costs.

As far as surface drives go, I personally have not seen one used anywhere around here but only in the ocean. I wonder why that is? I can't see how they would be a good boat for swimming around of skiing behind.

V-drives are a natural evolutionary change in response to the hot rod boaters of the 50s that realized they needed to move the weight of the engine aft for more speed. However at that time, out drives, surface drives and jets had not yet been developed, so these guys set about modifying the straight shaft set up to allow for the engine to be put in the stern. But V-drives have the best of both worlds as far as I can see. They have a rudder and straight shaft. That allows the boat to jump out of the hole and onto plane like a rocket. The rudder placement gives the boat sports car like handling and you can still steer the boat even when your not on the gas.

Jets need to be on the gas to steer. I've seen some that had a smallish rudder attached but it was no where near as reliable as a rudder set up like a V-drive. But I used to have a buddy that loved his jet and explained that it was only a matter of getting used to how a jet handled. He did some amazing manuevers with his.

Also, jets acheive reverse by dropping a cover (called a "bucket") over the nozzle. This redirects the jets thrust. If you could see how it works, you'd see that it also causes a certain amount of lifting force to be applied to the stern of the boat when going backwards. The V-drive will pull the stern underwater if you're not careful when in reverse. One of the totally coolest things about a jet boat is that you actually have brakes. You can be running down the lake and suddenly need to make a stop, you just dropped the reverse bucket and nail the gas. Instant stop! Too, when you go to the lake and see those hot boats with those humongous rooster tails of spray shooting all over, you can bet it's a jet that's doing that. That's gotta be fun! :lol:

So it really all comes down to what you want to do, what you like and so forth. For me personally, I'm going with the V when the time comes. The prop gets a better bite than a jet. There's a lot less slippage on the big end than with a jet. I could be wrong, but I believe that with all other things being equal (which they never are) the V-drive will spank a jet.
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

Nova SS
Posts: 2433
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:42 pm
Location: Stirling, ON

Postby Nova SS » Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:28 am

Dave Grason wrote:Unless something's not showing up in the pictures that IS showing up in the plans, the 2 boats are virtually identical. .

Denon Osterman wrote:yeah..tehy look pretty much identical...

raydr wrote:I agree the boats look nearly identical.....From the pictures and descriptions, they look identical.


The two boats may look the same however they are indeed different in one VERY important way. The Rampage is a V type hull while the Tornado is a flat bottom. In realitively calm water with simular power levels the Tornado will be much faster then the Rampage. BUT due to the design of the Rampage's hull it will be "smoother" and ride softer, if you get what I mean, when the water is a little bit rough. It all depends on what your looking for and the type of water you will tend to ride in. If you have access to waterways that are realitively sheltered and will be largely calm then it will be hard to beat the Tornado if on the other hand the waterways you have access to are rarely calm then I would think the Rampage would be the better choice.

You will be able to do largely the same type of activites with both boat styles so I would really look at the areas you plan on running and see how the water behaves.


Quote from the Glen-L Rampage Ad
This low profile inboard features a full 12 degree vee bottom that flattens out bumps in the water like a steam roller over hot asphalt! The lift strakes on the bottom of the RAMPAGE are just like the ones proven on the hot competition ocean racing boats which make all the headlines. They give you a flat, dry ride with easy steering, besides letting you get out of the hole like buckshot out of the barrel.


now this first pic is of the Rampage. Look how the hull is "V" shaped all the way from the bow to the transom
Image

Now this second pic is of the Tornado. Though the hull is a "V" at the bow it is largely flat at the transom.
Image

So as you can see they are two simular YET quite different boat designs.

Dave Grason wrote:I could be wrong, but I believe that with all other things being equal (which they never are) the V-drive will spank a jet.
8)

Now as far as the drive line is concerned I personally like the Vdrive. That is what I would use if I were to build either of these boats. If you want to go fast..I mean REALLY fast.....then you want a Vdrive. Look at the Drag boats, other than the outboard classes, I suspect you will find that most if not all of them run a Vdrive. There must be a reason for that.

Also, ya that Rooster tail looks cool but its not making you go any faster. Vdrives wont make that big tail but if the power levels and boat design are simular normally the Vdrive boat will be faster. PLUS its tough to build a Jet boat outta a flat cause Jets need the pick up in the water and flats tend to ride out of the water at speed.

A flat (Tornado, Thunderbolt, Dragster, etc) will normally be faster than the displacement or semi-displacement counter parts(Rampage, Riviera, Gentry, etc) . In theroy a flat has unlimited speed potential as all you need to do is keep adding more power and you will go faster...BUT a semi-displacement or displacemnt type boat is actually limited in their top end due to the design constraints. After a certian point adding more power will not make you go any faster with those designs.

So IMO it really comes down to what you wanna do and the waterways you have easy access too. If you can get access to fairly smooth water everytime you would want to boat then build the Tornado with a Vdrive. You will be way faster in the end with that boat. BUT if the water you have easy access to is rarely calm then the Rampage with a Vdrive would IMO be the better choice. (BUT I would think neither style will work well if you have REALLY rough water cause of the low freeboard)

Just my 2 cents :)

Nova SS
Posts: 2433
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:42 pm
Location: Stirling, ON

Postby Nova SS » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:43 am

Dave Grason wrote:The V-drive will pull the stern underwater if you're not careful when in reverse.


I'm not totally convinced this is the cause of swamping a Vdrive boat in reverse. I believe what causes Vdrive boats to get swamped in reverse is that many Vdrive type boats have very little freeboard especially at the transom. What can happen if the operator doesnt take this into account is that in reverse the wake (waves) created in reverse can actually wash over the transome thus lowering the freeboard at the transome even more which causes more water to wash over the transome and well after that the end is near....I think its the low freeboard and operator inexperence which cause this to happen..

Now not every Vdrive boat will have this issue....boats like the Hot Rod, Missle, Dragster all seem from their pics to have plenty of Freeboard while boats like the Tornado have much less and would be more prone to swamping in reverse...from the pics below you can see the drastic difference in freeboard at the transom I am describing

Missle
Image

Dragster
Image

Tornado
Image



BUT of course that just my 2 cents on that :)
Last edited by Nova SS on Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
razopp
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:52 pm
Location: Rockwall, TX (Dallas Suburb)
Contact:

Postby razopp » Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:39 am

Dave,

Thank you for the very clear explanation of the different drive options. It was a very useful read. It explained the benefits of the system better than I have found through reading the installation book.
Thanks for the information!

Robert

Denon Osterman
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:58 am
Location: toronto, CAN

Postby Denon Osterman » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:49 pm

how much wave will the tornado be able to take? my cottege is on lake muskoka, and its usually fairly calm except for a few days where it gets really rough, in which case i wouldn't be driving either. can the tornado take 1/2 to 1 foot chop? thanks again for all the help...if probably gained more info on this forum then everywhere else combined. just another question on v-drives...i would think that the angle of the shaft would give the boat a nose down attitude...why doesn't it?

Denon Osterman
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:58 am
Location: toronto, CAN

Postby Denon Osterman » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:57 pm

sorry for the doouble post...forgot...would it also be possible to route the exhaust so that the outlets were bellow the waterline on the transom? i know this a stupid sounding question...but i (and everyone on my lake) gets incredibly irritated at the boats that make it impossible to take at the marina because of the exhaust noise at idle...if they were routed below the boats waterline, i would have to get on plane before the exhaust is heard by the world...somethign im sure everyone would enjoy. i know its possible to do because most outdrives have thru-prop exhaust...but is it possible to use the traditional method(outlets on transom) below the waterline?

User avatar
Bill Edmundson
Posts: 10325
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:45 am
Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
Contact:

Postby Bill Edmundson » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:58 pm

My vote is Rampage. A little Vee bottom will make a more versitile boat.

As for waves, I understand most people try to point their docked or beached boat bow to the waves.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

Nova SS
Posts: 2433
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:42 pm
Location: Stirling, ON

Postby Nova SS » Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:49 am

Bill Edmundson wrote:My vote is Rampage. A little Vee bottom will make a more versitile boat.

As for waves, I understand most people try to point their docked or beached boat bow to the waves.

Bill


Absolutely, you will want to tie your boat up especially one like the Rampage/Tornado with the bow facing out towards the direction the waves are coming from to prevent the wakes from other boats and the natural wave action of the lake from swamping the boat. :wink: :)

Nova SS
Posts: 2433
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:42 pm
Location: Stirling, ON

Postby Nova SS » Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:53 am

Denon Osterman wrote:how much wave will the tornado be able to take? my cottege is on lake muskoka, and its usually fairly calm except for a few days where it gets really rough, in which case i wouldn't be driving either. can the tornado take 1/2 to 1 foot chop? thanks again for all the help...if probably gained more info on this forum then everywhere else combined. just another question on v-drives...i would think that the angle of the shaft would give the boat a nose down attitude...why doesn't it?


I would think in a flat bottom like the Tornado a 1 foot chop would make the ride ride pretty rough. Flats tend to pound when they hit waves. The half foot chop would likely be fine again JMO...The rampage would smooth out the ride considerably in either chop. BTW that is one BEAUTIFUL lake. What a great site to have a boat like that 8) :D

Now the down angle on the shaft does produce both forward thrust AND lift on the back of the boat. I believe normally speaking the only time you get a nose down attitude in this type of boat is if you have a rocker in the bottom of the hull and the boat is porposing(sp?) then it sorta skips across the surface.

However if you have a lot of HP and can go really fast(lets say above 75mph) the 10-12 degrees of down angle can create enough lift in the back of the boat to cause it to be unstable.....Most really fast Vdrive boats today are built with less down angle with 8-9 degrees being very common and some of the super fast boats even have less angle than that. The down side to using less down angle is the prop shaft needs to be longer and normally the Vdive itself has to be moved forward in the boat too. Vdrive boats tend to be tight for space so this can be a problem. BUT if your planning on going really fast (not sure what your plans are) then safety needs to be in the forefront of your plans.
Last edited by Nova SS on Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

Nova SS
Posts: 2433
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:42 pm
Location: Stirling, ON

Postby Nova SS » Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:03 am

Denon Osterman wrote:sorry for the doouble post...forgot...would it also be possible to route the exhaust so that the outlets were bellow the waterline on the transom? i know this a stupid sounding question...but i (and everyone on my lake) gets incredibly irritated at the boats that make it impossible to take at the marina because of the exhaust noise at idle...if they were routed below the boats waterline, i would have to get on plane before the exhaust is heard by the world...somethign im sure everyone would enjoy. i know its possible to do because most outdrives have thru-prop exhaust...but is it possible to use the traditional method(outlets on transom) below the waterline?


I would think it could be done.....you would have to make sure that water cannot ever go up the exhaust and hydorstaticly lockup the motor :shock: ...not a pretty sight. I would suspect you would have the direct the exhaust through some sort of "S" shaped piping to prevent any possibility of water entering the motor.

With that said however either of these boats would perform better with cavitation plates on the stern and since they are normally pretty low down on the boat they might limit how low you can place your exhaust. Now possibly you could run the exhaust through the transom in the more traditional location and just install mufflers on the boat too. Depending on the muffler you choose that should quiet it down to a decent level.

Denon Osterman
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:58 am
Location: toronto, CAN

Postby Denon Osterman » Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:34 am

one l;ast question...all in, do jet drives and v drives cost roughly the same? also are they roughly the same difficulty to install/assemble? im leaning towards the rampage right now cause although there are mroe voted for the tornado, and i personnaly think it looks better, muskoka is rairly calm, and when it is i plan to use my TNT.


Return to “Power Boats”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: RVCANTON and 18 guests