Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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hoodman
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby hoodman » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:03 pm

Hey, Bob, thanks for the tip. I'm definitely going to be getting a motor with a 20" shaft. Still trying to figure out how wide to make the motorwell. I'm thinking about halfway between the two options on the plans but not sure. One thing to consider is whether I'll be putting the gas tank in the stern or under the deck in the bow.

Also, I need to figure out if I'm going to stretch the design at all. A lot of people say definitely do the 10% stretch but I am not sure why. Seems that would just add more weight.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby Bill Edmundson » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:41 pm

hoodman

I recommend the stretch because when most of these plans were made I was average height, 5'8". Now I'm short.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

Craig Aho
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby Craig Aho » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:09 pm

I think the stretch would depend on how much room you might want or need. You might have to have a slightly bigger trailer and that might cost you more etc. I had the same problem with my motor well dimensions but ended up pretty close to the numbers in the supplement that Glen-L provides to help with those decisions.

Pullie
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby Pullie » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:37 am

hoodman wrote:Hey, Bob, thanks for the tip. I'm definitely going to be getting a motor with a 20" shaft. Still trying to figure out how wide to make the motorwell. I'm thinking about halfway between the two options on the plans but not sure. One thing to consider is whether I'll be putting the gas tank in the stern or under the deck in the bow.

Also, I need to figure out if I'm going to stretch the design at all. A lot of people say definitely do the 10% stretch but I am not sure why. Seems that would just add more weight.


Hoodman,

If you don't do the stretch you're gonna wish you did, A boat is just like a garage, at first it's big enough but soon you'll wish it was bigger.

As the gastank concerned, you might wanna finalize the location after the first test runs, I have it below the rear deck in a stretched FS when I started building, after a few runs i realised it would be better in the bow as extra weight and keep more room under the reardeck for misc. items that won't smell like gas.


gr. Paul

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jenko
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby jenko » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:42 am

I recommend the stretch because when most of these plans were made I was average height, 5'8". Now I'm short.

Bill

well I didn't shrink like you Bill cause at 5'4'' I was always short :lol: :lol: :lol:

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hoodman
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby hoodman » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:58 am

Thanks for chiming in guys. I am 5'11". I wanted this boat because of the extra freeboard compared to many of the other designs of its size. I tend to go fishing in the wintertime if the ice stays off the lakes so a nice dry ride is a plus. If I do the stretch I'll have to scarf joint my keel, which, is not that big of a deal anyways. Wouldn't take much to stretch it to 17' as in the plans its 16'1". I probably wouldn't even have to buy any extra plywood. The only thing is. Stretching the hull doesn't add the ability to add more power does it? Say could I go with a 115 instead of a 90? I'm guessing that's not advised.

Anyways. I am in the process of encapsulating the frames. I have all five built now. As of this morning all frames have two coats on one side. I think I'll go with two coats and then do one more on everything after the flip. Once they are encapsulated I can build the transom. So I'm not to far away from being on the building form.
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hoodman
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby hoodman » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:17 pm

Anybody have any tips to remedy this: I have a fuller tapered big with countersink as you can see in the picture. I guess I am just not setting it up right. I don't have a lot of experience with it.
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Tony Hain
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby Tony Hain » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:50 pm

Hi
I always pre screw with steel screws, remove them and then use the bronze screws. Have had no snapped or stripped heads since doing it that way. Also use a variable torque drill or impact driver.
Tony
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and on a more optimistic note "nor the capacity for human brilliance"

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby Bill Edmundson » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:54 pm

Do you lubricate the screws or try to go in dry. One trick is to use a toilet wax ring seal (I prefer a new one! :lol: ). Put the screws in the wax before use.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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rbrandenstein
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby rbrandenstein » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:57 pm

I had similar problems with the tapered bits.
I ended up using two straight bits. A smaller one for the threads and then a larger one for the shank. Plus a countersink.
There are tables that show the correct size for the various screw sizes.
Bit of a pain, but it worked. Also, I lubricated with liquid soap.
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hoodman
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby hoodman » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:26 pm

Thanks guys, I will try lubricating the screws. I've read folks talk about that before but forgot. These were in the bottom of frame 4. It is epoxied solid and there are a few whole screws in there and the half screws are in there. Do I need to make sure to get screws in or am I good without them?

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hoodman
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby hoodman » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:29 pm

I figure they are just to hold everything together until the epoxy cures. If they are in there for the sheer strength I don't think these screws are going to do much.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby Bill Edmundson » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:30 pm

Matt

I'm in the glued screwed and tattooed camp. That's just the structural engineer in me. But, some even take screws back out and plug the holes. Why they want to make more work I don't know. When I have had to try to take something apart the failure mechanism is always the wood, not the glue.

In the end, I don't know how much strength really comes from the frames. I think most of the strength comes from the skin. So, now that I haven't answered your question. I feel better with the screws when I slam down coming off a wave.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

bobinpowayca
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby bobinpowayca » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:19 pm

Hi Matt, here's what worked for me as for as screwing the plywood onto my Geronimo's frame. I am using 9mm (3/8) joubert okoume which I can only get in 8' lengths, and my keel, chine and sheers are white oak. I bought the nice fuller countersink and tapered bits but ended up not using them. And the key here (tip I got from the forum) is to use an IMPACT SCREWDRIVER which is the best thing I ever got.
I cut the panel to about the right size and clamped it onto the frame (by frame I mean chine, sheer, keel, etc). Then marked the inside of the panel, outlining all the frame members. Then removed the panel, laid it on my bench, and marked every spot a screw would go, i.e., every 3 or 4 inches on center. Then at every screw location I drilled a clean 1/8" hole.
Next I clamped it back onto the boat. At every hole I drilled a shallow smaller hole, e.g., 3/32" or less, just enough for the screw to take a bite. Then at every hole, I screwed a 1 1/4" "gold" screw or drywall screw, through a plywood washer (scrap okoume, about 1 1/2" square with a 1/8" hole in the center), and through the panel, into the white oak, just tight enough so as not to countersink the plywood washer. I did this at every hole.
Then, I removed the panel, laid it upside down on the table, and brushed a coat of glue (I used Poxy-Grip) onto the frame members and their outline on the panel.
Then, I clamped and screwed the panel back onto the boat. This time I screwed it on a little tighter (remember, IMPACT screwdriver), so each screw countersunk into the plywood washer a little bit.
Next, before the epoxy set up, I went along and one by one removed the screws and plywood washers, and replaced them with the 1 1/4" (or 1") silicon bronze screws, without the plywood washers, and screwed them in tight enough to countersink them just below the plywood surface.
The impact screwdriver worked great for driving and countersinking the si-br screws without breaking them because it "ratchets" them in and it's easy to control; if you should spin one out you can just drill it out with a carbon steel bit and fill the hole. I used Quik-Fair to fill the holes for my putty. Also be sure to remove the plywood washers before the epoxy sets up or they'll bond to your panel.
I didn't "stretch" my boat - for one thing that's about all I could build in my garage - but I like it as is, if it looks "portly" as I've heard maybe a stripe on the side will make her look slimmer.
I'll be following your build Hoodman. I'm at what I think is the most difficult part of my build, getting the other side of the bottom forward panel on. After that should be smooth sailing. By the way, with not stretching it beyond 16', I'm able to use only two 8' panels for each side of the bottom (thus only one butt joint), although the sides were a little too long and required two butt joints. Bob
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DSCN3864.JPG
Bob
_______________
Built the Glen-L 17 (1988), Geronimo under construction (2013)
PBR support (1968)

bobinpowayca
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Re: Another Geronimo Coming Soon

Postby bobinpowayca » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:25 pm

ps, I meant to say drill out any "spun out" si bronze screws AFTER the epoxy is set up. And by the way, Glen-L says NOT to countersink the plywood (as with a fuller countersink/taper) in his book; using the impact screwdriver just sucks them down and you can do it just deep enough to allow puttying the depression. Bob
Bob
_______________
Built the Glen-L 17 (1988), Geronimo under construction (2013)
PBR support (1968)


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