Making progress on my Monaco.

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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JoachimO
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby JoachimO » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:49 pm

Spent all day at work today reading this from start to finish. Had to register just to compliment you on an exceptionally well made boat. Hoping to get started on a Zip myself when I am done renovating my fibreglass daycruyiser, and if I can get it hals a well made as this I will be very pleased.

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sscobra
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby sscobra » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:41 pm

Thank you JoachimO. That is a very nice compliment and it means a lot to me. Skip
Built the Glen-L Monaco, 2016.

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sscobra
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby sscobra » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:30 pm

FINALLY got the boat out again. It has been over 6 months since my initial launch and I let too many things get in the way that prevented me from getting it back in the water. Well today was the day and had an interesting experience that I need help with. Pulled the boat out of the shop yesterday and fired her up. I was a little concerned about the 6 month old fuel, but she fired right up and purred like a lion. Ran the engine for about 20 minutes and shut it down. This morning towed it to Lake Austin and relived the initial launch. Drove up and down the lake for over an hour and then decided to pull into a dock at a restaurant on the lake. An hour or so later, got back in the boat and started the engine. Started right up but I quickly noticed a problem with the idle. It surged up and down several hundred rpm and I thought it was going to die, but it keep running, just not a steady rpm. Drove around for a few minutes with no change. Decided it was best to head back to the boat ramp. Took about 15 minutes to get back to the ramp, surging all the way. I shut it down for a short time to see if it was just a glitch in the computer. Started right up but the surging continued. Haven't been able to come up with ideas yet as to the cause. Suspected bad fuel or water in the fuel, but it was too difficult to see any in the tank. I have two water/fuel separator filters on the boat, one external, and one in the fuel control cell (FCC). I removed the external filter and found no water in the fuel. I will pull the one in the FCC tomorrow and check it. But it seems to me if there was water in the fuel, than it shouldn't have run as well as it did for the first hour or so on the water. The only difference is the boat sat outside in the hot sun for an hour as we ate lunch. What could have happened will it just sat there? Appreciate any ideas. Thanks. Skip
Built the Glen-L Monaco, 2016.

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jenko
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby jenko » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:05 am

Run it again with a fuel pressure gauge could be sticky fuel pressure regulator or dicky fuel pump but a gauge will tell more

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BayouBengal
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby BayouBengal » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:20 am

Could you possibly getting vapor lock in your fuel lines? Is any portion of them located in a place very close to the hot engine, or hot sun?

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jenko
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby jenko » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:47 pm

Could you possibly getting vapor lock in your fuel lines? Is any portion of them located in a place very close to the hot engine, or hot sun?

Extremely unlikely as the fuel system would run between 2.5 and 3 bar with that pressure maintained after switch off also should hold that pressure at least for a few hours or indefinite on good system.
If system has return line .blocking return line should see a pressure rise to at least 6 bar and a good pump should flow at least 1 litre in 30 seconds under load or out of return line
if no return line pressure regulator will be at pump and pump should flow same amount of fuel out of main line .
you should be able to activate fuel pump by removing fuel pump relay and bridging appropriate wires.
If your not clear on what I am saying It might be best to have a mechanic do the pressure/flow test .
in the long run it will save hours of guessing :)

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mrintense
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby mrintense » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:50 pm

Hey Skip,

Glad to hear you were able to get her out on the lake! Sorry to hear about the engine trouble. I have to defer to those with more engine experience on this one.

Which restaurant did you stop at? I've been day dreaming about doing that for 5 years! Are you getting the hang of the steering?
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Bob Perkins
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby Bob Perkins » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:14 pm

I didn't read all the way back to see what engine you had - but this sounds very much like an issue I had on my truck years ago..
If your engine is modern and has a mass air flow sensor on the intake and the throttle body - it could be dirty causing the butterfly valve to stick.
I can't remember all the terms now.. but the flapper that regulates the air intake in the motor could be sticking..dust & crap can cause that..
Just a thought - but it may not be fuel.. it may be air intake that is screwing up the computer and causing it to feed fuel into the engine incorrectly..

If you have an older - carbureted engine.. then this is not the case..
Hope this helps.
Bob

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby Bill Edmundson » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:39 pm

Skip

If it has mass/airflow, that could be it. I also had the problem on one of my trucks. It went nuts. With a new boat, it is hard to really get it clean inside. Could have stirred some dust from sanding.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

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sscobra
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby sscobra » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:19 pm

Thanks for all the replies! I don't think it is vapor lock because the engine has a fuel control cell that is designed to eliminate it and usually with vapor lock the engine won't run at all. Jenko, I do have a pressure gauge, so I will definitely be using it to check on the fuel pressure. Bob, the engine is a PCM 350 cubic inch, fuel injected engine. Bought the engine brand new, but it sat in my shop for about a year before I installed it. It only has about 3 hours on it. It does not have a mass airflow sensor, but it does have a MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure). Every other fuel injected engine I have ever owned has had a mass airflow sensor, so I know how to deal with them. I will have to check into the MAP sensor to see how the engine would perform if it were to get dirty. Don't know why that would have happened just sitting there after running perfectly for over an hour. I will definitely look into it though. Carl, the restaurant was Ski Shores. It is a nice place. Definitely embarrassed myself trying to park at the dock, but finally got it done with some help from the harbor master who was working there. He even offered to give me lessons with the boat...might take him up on it. Definitely a steep learning curve with the inboard. Getting better, but still need work on mastering the throttle in tight places. Thanks again for all the suggestions. Please keep them coming if anything comes to mind. Skip
Attachments
trip1.jpg
My wife, Laura, on the left, Glenn's wife, Mary, on the right.
trip2.jpg
Waiting for the ramp to clear so I can pick up my friend Glenn.
trip3.jpg
Looking pretty in the sun.
Built the Glen-L Monaco, 2016.

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jenko
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby jenko » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:58 pm

great photos
with the manifold absolute pressure sensor it reads load by manifold vacuum,
less than atmospheric pressure closed throttle. atmospheric pressure wide open throttle ,it has no moving parts,crystal load sensor ,and rarely fail
if one of your ,engine sensor sensors is faulty the check engine light will come on.if the map sensor is faulty the light will come on and the ecu will revert to a throttle position based fuel map with not much difference in performance.
Bottom line is if no engine light all sensors are good / the light is blown / the ecu is faulty/ or something ecu doesn't monitor is not working.
if ecu outputs are faulty the ecu also doesn't know about it like a fuel pump, or other things like blocked filter /stuck pressure regulator
I believe the pcm fuel filter is 10 microns and won't allow water through
if you have acquired some in the tank through condensation over winter the effect of blocking the filter would not happen immediately.
It is an aviation law to fill fuel tank after flight to stop this condensation effect
If the light has come on you should be able to bridge the diagnostic connector terminal to flash out a code from the engine light .
ie a gm code 1 flash pause 2 flashes = code 12 all ok
3 flashes pause 3 flashes code 33 map sensor voltage to high
I would expect all this to be in manual or available from pcm

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jenko
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby jenko » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:22 pm

Also check for condensation in distributor cap, may have turned up after run and sitting for a while
And found these for you
http://dealer.pcmengines.com/assets/LIN ... terial.pdf
http://dealer.pcmengines.com/assets/Att ... terial.pdf

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NAMEngJS
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby NAMEngJS » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:46 am

I also had something similar on my first car. I thought it might have been the MAF as well to begin as I had an aftermarket air intake on my sports car. I had 2 mechanics look at it and the code that was given was a problem with the #3 Coil Pack (each spark plug had its own individual coil) I swapped coils around (2-3 for example) and still was showing the same issue with #3. In the end I took it to the dealer and was lucky enough to have them change out the ECM computer under warranty! Made the cut-off by about 7000 miles :lol: After that the issue went away. Still miss driving my 5 speed :cry:

Obviously my engine was much older at that point compared to yours, but hopefully you can get it sorted out
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds, wake to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers by day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

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sscobra
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby sscobra » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:57 pm

Thanks for the downloads jenko. There is a lot of info in them. I have no error codes showing on my malfunction light. I was hoping to be able to hook up my OBDII reader to the engine but no such luck. It has a different diagnostic connector and is not compatible with OBDII. I pulled the fuel control cell apart and there was no water in it. I did hook up my fuel pressure gauge to the engine and with the key on, the pressure reads 62 psi. I didn't run my engine in the shop so don't know what the pressure will do yet while it is running. I decided to dump the fuel and replace the filters. The fuel is a dark urine color, but is clear with no evidence of water. However just letting it sit in a open container for awhile causes it to get very cloudy. Maybe it is just absorbing water out of the atmosphere. Either way, I will just start with fresh fuel and filters and see what happens. I probably won't be able to reproduce the problem until I find some time to get back on the lake and let the boat sit by a dock for an hour or so. Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I will let you know the outcome. Skip
Built the Glen-L Monaco, 2016.

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speedracer
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Re: Making progress on my Monaco.

Postby speedracer » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:30 am

Skip,

Sorry for your problems. This isn't worth much technically but working on and diagnosing car problems all my life, I found it's almost always the simplest solution. I re-built a Porsche years ago. Took almost two years - everything was perfect. I put 5 gallons in it to try it out the first time and it ran great. Came back, adjusted the carbs and took it out again for a longer run. Stopped to fill the tank and it quit after a few miles. Had to get towed home. Found a gallon of water in the tank and all kinds of trash in the tank, lines, filters, carbs, etc.

Hope the change in fuel and filters fixes your problem. I'm certainly interested since that's the same engine as mine.
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