Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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North
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby North » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:55 am

Some progress and a couple small setbacks...
- engine started immediately, after 2 years...and throttle control worked
- transmission controls worked and shaft moved in fwd and reverse

but. my steering ram seal leaks and my 2nd water pump, rigged up for seawater cooling didn't pump anything....

I am thinking I have one or both of the below issues and maybe more... help please if you can!!

1. Which direction should it spin, when viewed in pics below? I first thought it would spin counter-clockwise (so impeller pulled water from narrow channel to wider channel, perhaps creating some vacuum....now wondering if it should spin clockwise so water is pushed from wider channel towards narrow to create pressure.
I tried spinning it in both direction by hand, with backing plate on with gasket maker with no results at all... which leads me to #2...

2. When mounted on a Yanmar tractor or engine, maybe it mounts on a seal of some sort or raised area in middle, so it reduces the gap between the center and the backing plate/ mounting area? I didn't look close enough before but looks like there is perhaps a 1/16" gap so the impeller is recessed and does not touch the backing plate. I now assume that any gap of significance would mean the pump cannot create any vacuum/ push/pull of water, etc..

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:22 am

North

Looking at the lower picture it should be clockwise. Water enters the center and is thrown outwards.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

North
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby North » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:15 am

Hi Bill - sorry to be dumb, but... do you mean clockwise in the lowest of 3 pics, where you see only the front/pulley side, or clockwise in the middle pic, where you see the open back with the impeller?

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Ronb172
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby Ronb172 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:23 am

Sorry to butt in but in the lower picture, the pump will turn clock wise. Also in your power picture, the inlet is on top and outlet on the bottom
Squirt almost ready to get wet
Building my third SUP.
Started the Topper build.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:51 am

Yes, the bottom, no.3, picture.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

North
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby North » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:49 am

Well, |I have it spinning clockwise (when viewed from the front / pulley end) but there was no suction or pumping even at 2000 rpm or more, with the lines primed with water... I will have to measure the distance from the center of the impeller to my backing plate, and if there is any gap like 1/16" or more, I may tack in a shim to reduce the area between the impeller and backplate. I know on the rubber impeller sea water pumps if the backplate is scored at all (increasing the gap) it greatly reduces the efficiency. On some you can turn over the backplate to have a fresh / flat surface for the impeller after one side is too badly worn.

I may just rig up a cheap electric pump for the summer as well..... thanks for the reply and help!

This is dumb, but I ordered this pump on line and never thought of it's material / composition. \it is likely a cast iron or steel impeller so I would not be able to use it for long likely anyway, without rust being an issue... should have bought the Cummins oem pump or a good rubber impeller one.....

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psychobilly
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby psychobilly » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:46 am

Call SKIDIM

http://www.skidim.com/Raw-Water-Pumps/products/1094/

THESE PEOPLE ARE AWESOME!

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:10 am

North

Is this the raw/sea water pump or the fresh water pump? Most sea water pumps that I have seen have rubber impellers.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

North
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby North » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:48 pm

it is for seawater, as the engine has it's own internal water pump for the antifreeze side. Mine is a marine version 4BT, but it had the keel cooled package so it did not have a seawater pump. I should have added the proper Cummins gear driven seawater pump, but they are about $450 Cnd, so I tried to rig this up instead. It is not a "real| seawater pump, but rather a tractor pump I hoped I could make work....

North
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby North » Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:24 am

Tried calling SKIDIM per recommendation - they do not sell any pumps for diesels / cummins - tech was polite/ helpful in noting many reasons why it may not work to try and rig something up like correct rpm range/ water flow, correct mating to crank /harmonic balancer or pulley, etc.

So, if I knew which of their pumps were rated to go with engine of similar rpm range, max 2800rpm on mine - I might give it a try, but only of it were one of their sub $200 pumps. \if it os one of their more costly pumps, I may as well go with the cummins gear driven one, but currently at about $600 plus tax/ exchange/shipping, I really can't swallow that right now..only paid $2000 for the whole engine.......

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kens
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby kens » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:29 am

that pump in the pictures with the metal inpeller looks like a circulating pump, since you say it was from a tractor, that pretty much sums it up, it is a circulating pump.
you need a raw water pump.
here, this was my first hit on Ebay,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WATER-PUMP-CUMM ... 05&vxp=mtr

I got the pump that drives off the front of the crankshaft, and it seems that it was $175 10 years ago, and it is a much smaller pump than yours. probably $400 to fit one for yours todays prices
Oak is over rated, everything about it takes extra time; then it warps, splits or checks !!! :roll:

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kens
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby kens » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:31 am

Oak is over rated, everything about it takes extra time; then it warps, splits or checks !!! :roll:

North
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby North » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:32 am

Hi Ken - in the end, I will likely go with that one...but, I may sea trial the boat with my bilge pump in a bucket / container as I will just run dry exhaust for trial, so I can shoot the cooling water back in the bucket for a short trial.....

North
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby North » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:11 am

I may actually rig up the seawater pump from my sailboat, as I may not put sailboat in this summer, if this one works and I can use it... pump is off anyway, from winterization. Should be able to use same bracket I tried with incorrect pump with juts a spacer, and maybe shorted belt.
\it may be a bit lower flow/ smaller outlet but our water is cold up here, so I would think it would still cool heat exchanger reasonably well.

North
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Re: Progress pics and questions on Aluminum Double Eagle build

Postby North » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:05 pm

Sailboat seawater pump is pretty small. So may not pump enough volume. In meantime cut out and started welding on transom. Will finish welding it up tomorrow and hopefully add flatbar and another pipe to each gunwhale.
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