Malahini from Texas

Designs for inboard or outboard power

Moderator: BruceDow

User avatar
ryanp
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 3:26 pm
Location: Fort worth Tx

Malahini from Texas

Postby ryanp » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:53 am

Hello all,
This is my first topic post will start it off by posting my first problem that I have ran into.
I think most everybody who has built most of the glen l boats have used the templets and might just use the blue print as reference when needed, I on the other hand dont care for cutting cookies and tend to use just the schematics to try and further hone skills and just for the fun of having a challenge on my hand. Well if a challenge is what I wanted I sure did get it.
Image

The photo above shows the 1st frame and how off the shear is from it. All frames match and are in spec according to the b/p. After two days of racking my small brain and a cold one or two I couldn't figure out what was wrong until I had both templets and b/p out on the table my wife asked if I had measured between the two to see if there the same. Low and behold there not, for the 1st frame b/p shows 18"1/2'' for rail height and templet measures 21"1/4''.

Has anyone else noticed this and if so I think we should tell someone.
Image

So far this has been a fun build and the use of recycled old southern yellow pine for most of the build has really given me and my tools a workout. This stuff is hard and dense and takes a lot of muscle and hot water to bend but it has exceeded my expectations on strength and is very ridged.
It has been proven that beer can make you younger or at least feel that way!

Building the Malahini.
Not yet named.

User avatar
jenko
Posts: 812
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Pine Mountain . Vic . Australia
Contact:

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby jenko » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:26 pm

I would be checking the frame width at the shear it appears that either frame 1 is too narrow or transom and frame 2 could be to wide
it looks good at the chine

User avatar
ryanp
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 3:26 pm
Location: Fort worth Tx

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby ryanp » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:50 am

I should rephrase my previous post for measurements.

On the blue prints it shows 18.5'' from top of shear to chine.

The template shows 21.?? what ever it was.

I went back out into the garage and made a new #1 frames side only , glued and sistered them on to the existing frames that didn't fit. I decided it would be to much trouble ripping out and rebuilding the old ones. Plus it will be covered anyways and the only person who would know about it would be myself.
Image

After placing it in there I would say that the B/P and templates are way off but it is still fun to figure out and solve problems out.
Image
Someone is really getting ready for me to finish!
It has been proven that beer can make you younger or at least feel that way!

Building the Malahini.
Not yet named.

User avatar
Roberta
Posts: 5946
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: East Troy, Wisconsin

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby Roberta » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:28 am

Glad you got it sorted out. I'm sure your remedy will be fine. Curious, you say blue prints (B/P). Typically the plans come with full size templates (half frame split at the CL for frames) and several drawings like the plan view, construction drawings (build form setup), and lofting lines. The drawings are scaled down (1'/1") and may or may not be totally accurate and hard to scale up. Always best to use the measurements on the templates and draw out the full size (both sides of the frame) on a layout table and assemble the framing over the layout.

Roberta :D
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

User avatar
mrintense
Posts: 2516
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:22 am
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby mrintense » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:55 am

Roberta wrote:Glad you got it sorted out. I'm sure your remedy will be fine. Curious, you say blue prints (B/P). Typically the plans come with full size templates (half frame split at the CL for frames) and several drawings like the plan view, construction drawings (build form setup), and lofting lines. The drawings are scaled down (1'/1") and may or may not be totally accurate and hard to scale up. Always best to use the measurements on the templates and draw out the full size (both sides of the frame) on a layout table and assemble the framing over the layout.

Roberta :D


I agree with this as well. I found out that due to shrinkage of the paper that the templates were printed on (a normal occurrence with blue prints), that my parts didn't match up exactly to the measurements either. Fortunately, I did what Roberta is mentioning, laid out the dimensions on a layout board and matched everything up to that.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

User avatar
Gayle Brantuk
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:02 pm
Location: Bellflower, CA
Contact:

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby Gayle Brantuk » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:18 am

Ryanp,

Roberta is correct. When full size patterns are provided, do NOT use the measurements on the plans--they are for reference only. When Glen-L first began, we didn't have patterns--just the dimensions on the plans and the builder had to draw them full size. At some point, the full size patterns were made. It's possible there were corrections made at some point and they would be reflected in the patterns. So sorry for the confusion...

User avatar
mrintense
Posts: 2516
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:22 am
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby mrintense » Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:21 pm

Now I am confused!

I guess I am okay because my boat appears to have turned out correct. I did use the measurements on the plans because I was having trouble getting consistent results from the blueprints. This wasn't because they were inaccurate, but rather because they were folded and combined with the humidity I had at the time, I couldn't get what I was looking for.

The main dimensions I was looking for was centerline to outside chine and sheer points and distance vertically between chine and sheer points. There are other important dimensions but I was figuring that I needed to get the frames consistent as per the measurements. At any rate, later on I used battens to verify the vertical and side to side placement of the frames checking for a fair curve. Also made sure that the frames were placed correctly on the building form in all three dimensions.

I guess I got lucky.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

User avatar
gap998
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 5:40 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby gap998 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:33 pm

Should be interesting when I come to model up my boats! :lol:
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

User avatar
Roberta
Posts: 5946
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: East Troy, Wisconsin

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby Roberta » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:46 pm

When you get your "Plans" from Glen L, you get a Construction Manual, Line Drawing, Construction Drawing, Section Drawing, and a Scale Drawing of a completed boat. In these drawings, typically 1 inch equals 1 foot of the actual boat size. There would be a scale on the drawings. There are reference measurements like set point heights and frame spacing on the Sections drawing. There are probably no dimensions on the other drawings. You can measure these drawings and scale up to full size, but this is not recommended as the drawings may not be precisely accurate and measurements taken can be off. And because you are trying to determine 3D measurements from a 2D drawing, things like slope and bevels can be misleading and confusing causing builders to undersize parts.

Also with the plan set is a set of patterns. Pieces should be made using the patterns and full size frame layout should be done using the patterns and instructions Glen L provides in laying out patterns. Patterns are only provided for 1/2 of the framing and transom. You need to transfer a mirror image for a complete frame pattern. Glen L also provides other generic instructions with their plan sets. Reference to the direction a pattern is drawn will also influence how a part is cut. Case in Point: A transom is often drawn showing the aft view. Consideration has to be given to how the bottom and sides are cut because angles cut in the finished part may make the forward side of the transom larger than the aft view. Depends on the slope of the angle.

While patterns could be off slightly due to folding and other conditions, they are generally not very far off. As a reference, you could cross check your patterns with the line and construction drawings, but I would use the patterns as a guide. Even a small amount of measuring error can be huge when scaling up.

Hope this helps,

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

User avatar
Roberta
Posts: 5946
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: East Troy, Wisconsin

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby Roberta » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:47 pm

I must apologize if I'm sounding like I'm on a bully pulpit. I was misstating some things like calling the patterns "templates". Some people make templates from the patterns. I also was not sure what people meant by "Blue Prints". I just wanted to call the things out as Glen L lists them in their plan sets to avoid any confusion. I assume people mean the patterns as the blueprints.

Soorrrryyy,

Roberta :oops: :oops: :oops: :D
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

User avatar
ryanp
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 3:26 pm
Location: Fort worth Tx

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby ryanp » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:22 pm

Just so we are all clear on what I'm saying. It was not until I measured between the template and then referenced them to the blueprints I found the mistake.
The big pieces of paper that are only half of the frames and they tell you not to cut out so you have to trace are what I call templates. Definition follows.
Template-a shaped piece of metal, wood, card, plastic, or other material used as a pattern for processes such as painting, cutting out, shaping, or drilling.


As for what I call BLUEPRINTS, Definition follows-Blueprints-a design plan or other technical drawing.
synonyms: plan, design, diagram, drawing, sketch, map, layout, representation
2. a photographic print in white on a bright blue ground or blue on a white ground used especially for copying maps, mechanical drawings, and architects' plans.

With my plans comes drawings of each individual frame that have vertical, horizontal, radius's, and angled measurements and is what I call blueprints. It was from these incorrect numbers I had built the frame 2" to short.

I hope this clears up everything, It is really hard to convey your thought over the web.
Roberta wrote:I must apologize if I'm sounding like I'm on a bully pulpit. I was misstating some things like calling the patterns "templates". Some people make templates from the patterns. I also was not sure what people meant by "Blue Prints". I just wanted to call the things out as Glen L lists them in their plan sets to avoid any confusion. I assume people mean the patterns as the blueprints.

Soorrrryyy,

Roberta :oops: :oops: :oops: :D

Roberta, don't worry about it. You are a pillar of this community and I take your advice any day of the week.

Gayle Brantuk wrote:Ryanp,

Roberta is correct. When full size patterns are provided, do NOT use the measurements on the plans--they are for reference only. When Glen-L first began, we didn't have patterns--just the dimensions on the plans and the builder had to draw them full size. At some point, the full size patterns were made. It's possible there were corrections made at some point and they would be reflected in the patterns. So sorry for the confusion...

Gayle- thanks for posting. I have to say I look forward to the email news letter every month, if i didn't get them I wouldn't be building mine today.
I ask if this has come up before that you know of and could it be changed for future prints and buyers? I have to admit I was upset for a day when I found out it wasn't my error. I have always loved breaking out my tape measure and doing it the old fashioned way, this time it bit me but I do love a good challenge, I just don't think others will welcome the same challenge as I do. But hey, if its not a challenge then it's not worth doing!

mrintense wrote:Now I am confused!

I guess I am okay because my boat appears to have turned out correct. I did use the measurements on the plans because I was having trouble getting consistent results from the blueprints. This wasn't because they were inaccurate, but rather because they were folded and combined with the humidity I had at the time, I couldn't get what I was looking for.

The main dimensions I was looking for was centerline to outside chine and sheer points and distance vertically between chine and sheer points. There are other important dimensions but I was figuring that I needed to get the frames consistent as per the measurements. At any rate, later on I used battens to verify the vertical and side to side placement of the frames checking for a fair curve. Also made sure that the frames were placed correctly on the building form in all three dimensions.

I guess I got lucky.


''mrintense'' I hope this helped, just have a cold pint when trying to take it in, It sure helped me! I think I'm still confused though.
It has been proven that beer can make you younger or at least feel that way!

Building the Malahini.
Not yet named.

User avatar
ryanp
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 3:26 pm
Location: Fort worth Tx

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby ryanp » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:34 am

Thought I would post an update on how work has been coming along.
Image

As you can tell there is a lot of saw dust and wood shavings that have been thrown about from the fairing proses and boy has it's been a chore.
As I like building furniture in he more traditional way of mostly had tools and little to no use of any power assisted death wheels, I have come to the conclusion My time is more valuable than a $35.00 HBF electric hand planer. I do have to say that it is fun to use and hogs off a lot of material in one pass but in my opinion it takes more skill to use than doing by hand the old fashion way.
There are a few places that concern me on the thickness of the chine. After fairing I haven't decided if laminating to build thickness, cleats from frame to chine, or laminating and cleats are the way to go for the number 3 to 4 frame chine, It looks to skinny for my liking and the fact that the front takes a large load of impact when hitting waves and the thought of the bow snapping off makes me cringe with fear.

Also on the dock order are engine options. A little help in this area will be need for sure with the size decision. So far I have two options on my plate with a Johnson 115hp witch I know is the largest I should go and probably shouldn't go that large or a 50hp Mercury that is probably to small for for my plans of water skiing. I know I have a little time left to decide but it never hurts to start planning for this stuff to be ahead when the time comes.

Thanks for reading and god bless. Ryan
It has been proven that beer can make you younger or at least feel that way!

Building the Malahini.
Not yet named.

User avatar
Roberta
Posts: 5946
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: East Troy, Wisconsin

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby Roberta » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:44 am

Coming along nicely! From the picture, it does look like you may have removed too much from the bottom of the chine.

Roberta :D
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

User avatar
mrintense
Posts: 2516
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:22 am
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby mrintense » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:47 am

Ryan

From someone who went through this last year, I can sympathize with the fairing. I faired my chines in the aft section using a hand plane. Also the keel. But everywhere else I used power tools. A 21 foot boat is too large to fair completely by hand unless you are willing to spend a year doing it. as it was, it took me four months!
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

User avatar
hoodman
Posts: 1069
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:48 am
Location: Lafayette, IN

Re: Malahini from Texas

Postby hoodman » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:27 am

The website states "short shaft outboard motor to 85 hp." I wouldn't go over that. I would think 60-70hp would be more than enough. It is such a light boat, and you will be able to waterski with a motor in that power range. I do know that there are several folks that have put the modern 90 hp two strokes on the malahini. Possible with a stretch in the design and reinforced motorwell. I think a 115 would be overkill, and scary. That being said, I'm (planning on) going with the maximum recommended power on my build.


Return to “Power Boats”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 13 guests