New Malahini Build "Finally"

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zip001
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New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby zip001 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:40 pm

New build finally underway. This may be a little long to explain and ask a few questions.

I was a lurker on this forum for about a year. I joined a year ago with the intention of building a Zip, hence the user name. I ordered plans and reached out for some info on this forum. gdcarpenter in North Carolina responded and hosted my wife and I one afternoon last November. His boat is amazing and he did some really nifty things during his build. After the visit, my wonderful wife thought I should build a bigger boat. How lucky am I:) So I did some more research and then purchased the plans for the Malahini. Part of the deal was finishing the basement, there is always a catch. I took the last year to finish the basement and ended up with a 13 x 33 workshop. It's all done now.

I started work the last week in Nov on the boat. I usually travel quite a bit but had some time off for the holidays. I have completed all frames, making one small mistake, which I was able to overcome. I also have all other components for the bow completed. I have begun work on the transom. Not much to really show that is worthwhile but I will attempt to get some photos posted within the next week. I have all the chines, sheers, and battens cut as well. I am trying to handle all my big stock before I loose room to the boat set up on the building frame. This leads me to a few questions.

1) I plan to build the boat in my basement. I will have about 1 inch to spare if I remove all the door jambs to get the boat out. Is it feasible to roll it onto its side with appropriate bracing on the frames and then carry it out on it's side. That gives me about 5 inches to play with. Not sure how heavy it will be. Maybe someone who has rolled or lifted a Malahini build lately can respond.

2) Should I encapsulate my frames, except future bonding surfaces for the plywood before I put them on the frame?

3) I wanted to rip my large sheets of plywood before I lost a lot of room in my basement. If the plans call for 3' x 18' for instance, are those really safe measurements. I thought I would rip the plywood to 3' then put back on the rack ready to pull out.

4) Has anyone raised the height of the building platform. I was thinking 6 inches or so but this may not be worthwhile?

5) I was also thinking of purchasing and resawing my veener in advance before I loose room. This would allow me work with longer pieces. If I can keep it stacked and climate controlled in the basement is there a downside to this. (shrinkage, warping, etch) I have never done work with veneer before.

I know this was a lot. Look forward to comments. I will learn to post pictures this week or weekend. I may not have much to offer as far as helping other but I have already learned so much here that I feel I owe something or at least and attempt in return.

thanks
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready in the night to visit harm on those who would wish us evil.

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specialk
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby specialk » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:02 pm

Well .. this is not a lot of help...But I would encapsulate the frames...It will only befit you to do as much as yon can along the way...

Ok that's all I can help with.. but sure other will commit soon ...good luck with the build..
Kelly...1st Boat...Flats Flyer
2nd Boat.....?

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mrintense
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby mrintense » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:04 pm

zip001 wrote:
1) I plan to build the boat in my basement. I will have about 1 inch to spare if I remove all the door jambs to get the boat out. Is it feasible to roll it onto its side with appropriate bracing on the frames and then carry it out on it's side. That gives me about 5 inches to play with. Not sure how heavy it will be. Maybe someone who has rolled or lifted a Malahini build lately can respond.

2) Should I encapsulate my frames, except future bonding surfaces for the plywood before I put them on the frame?

3) I wanted to rip my large sheets of plywood before I lost a lot of room in my basement. If the plans call for 3' x 18' for instance, are those really safe measurements. I thought I would rip the plywood to 3' then put back on the rack ready to pull out.

4) Has anyone raised the height of the building platform. I was thinking 6 inches or so but this may not be worthwhile?

5) I was also thinking of purchasing and resawing my veener in advance before I loose room. This would allow me work with longer pieces. If I can keep it stacked and climate controlled in the basement is there a downside to this. (shrinkage, warping, etch) I have never done work with veneer before.


I cannot directly answer questions 1 and 5 but I can comment on the the other three.

#2 ) I found that encapsulating the frames before mounting them on the building form considerably extended the time it took me to get to that point in the build. However, they are far easier to encapsulate horizontally than vertically. You would end up having to encapsulate them eventually anyway and with them in the boat, I can imagine that being more difficult. However you could do both sides of the frame at the same time so you would gain some time there. But there is a much higher chance of runs on the vertical surfaces. You can get around this with thin foam rollers but you would probably have difficulty getting them into some of the areas. Also keep in mind that as you start adding planking and even other structure, you will get drips on the wood. These will be easier to clean off if the frame is already encapsulated.

#3) I think the biggest risk here is that it might be necessary to turn the plywood as you install it to the frames. IN other words it might be less than three feet from sheer to chine or chine to keel, but if the plywood has to be rotated to conform to the curves, you might find a three foot wide sheet too narrow. I am not saying this will happen, just that it might happen. I ran into this on my build when applying the front side skins where the plywood was rotated nearly 30 degrees in order to fit between the chine and sheer across the entire length of the board.

#4) I raised my building form 8 inches and it definitely makes it easier to do the low jobs and to get under the boat. On the other hand, dealing with all the bottom structure and planking was more difficult because I can no longer reach the keel from the side of the boat without using a step stool or ladder. I think it depends on how much you anticipate getting under the boat and how difficult it is for you to work on low areas. In my case, I had a two level garage floor that required me to raise the form anyway so it was a simple matter to extend this to 8 inches.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

slug
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby slug » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:29 pm

I would definitely raise the form at least 6 inches, 'tho it does make it more difficult to work on the bottom, but makes the sides easier.

In your case of door clearance, would going out on an angle be better than fully on its side? If possible. This would be less stress on the sheer.

Doug

gdcarpenter
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby gdcarpenter » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:01 pm

Welcome, glad to hear you have started, it was great having you visit us.

Encapsulating my frames as they were built likely made my project move forward slower but they looked great when eventually done. I didn't worry or fuss with leaving 'attachment points' bare wood, but then I used half lap joints for the frame assemblies.

My ZIP at flip was around 200 lb. My ZIP fully loaded for a day trip with 6 gallons of fuel and a big battery is around 850 lb.

Where are you getting 18' lengths of Marine Ply??? Or are you scarfing? As someone else mentioned the panels curve so 3' might not do it. Out of metric sheets, slightly larger than 4'X8', I think I had about 20" wide strips left after scarfing 2 8'ers together end to end and rough cutting to fit the hull on my ZIP.

Personally I would think if you have a climate controlled workshop, you lucky fella, 'seasoning' the future veneer shouldn't hurt, with the caveat that once you 'free' up larger dimensional lumber into smaller pieces the wood can have a nasty habit of torturing itself into awfull twisted shapes :) (don't ask me how I learned that one)
This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

zip001
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby zip001 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:02 pm

Awesome responses. I think I will raise the building form by 6 inches. I will also go ahead and encapsulate the frames before I set them on the building form. I do think it will allow me to do a little better job with less mess and runs. It may slow me down a little but I am now working between jobs anyway so this should not really be an issue. I think based on the info provided I will just wait to cut the plywood until the I am ready to make a template so that I don't short myself. I will make room.

As far as getting the boat out, I would have more room with the boat on an angle I just thought it might be harder to handle in that position. I think if I add some bracing between the sheers (side to side) I can add enough to support to support long enough to get out the door. My wife now says I am just looking for an excuse to go to a roll up door:) Maybe!!!

Thanks again I appreciate all the input.
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready in the night to visit harm on those who would wish us evil.

zip001
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby zip001 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:03 pm

I will be scarfing my plywood also. I have 8 foot pieces and 10 ft pieces. I do plan to attempt scarf joints. It a learning process.
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready in the night to visit harm on those who would wish us evil.

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rbrandenstein
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby rbrandenstein » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:49 am

Welcome to the Malahini club! You will find the build project and final product a rewarding endeavor. Lots of challenges and creativity required and plenty of help on this forum. A search of this forum will usually find an answer to any question you have.

Once I had the hull framing complete, I used some roofing paper to make a template of the plywood side. This let me get a much closer approximation to the size and shape I needed. I also scarfed the plywood and used the template to remove a lot of excess material, making the piece easier to handle. My blog covers it here: http://www.bobsboatbuild.blogspot.com/2011/02/scarfing-plywood.html

I found a 32" by 17' piece is required for the sides. I used two 10' pieces, but a 10' and 8' would have sufficed.

I would also recommend encapsulating as much as you can ahead of time. It could be done before mounting on the building form or on the form prior to planking. I waited until after the flip and would not recommend it. Also, don't forget to encapsulate the inside face of the plywood sides, bottom and decking prior to installation.

When I flipped my hull, I clamped some 2x4s across the sheer to support the sides. During the flip, it was set down on its side so my crew could re-position for the final move. I would think you would want to do this as well. Also be cognizant of the beam, which is almost 7'. Hopefully you have a pretty straight shot out your door. I do not know the weight of the bare hull, but I would think it is another 100# or so over the Zip.
Here is my side bracing.
IMG_0644.JPG
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Completed Malahini (launched 6/24/2012)
http://bobsboatbuild.blogspot.com/

zip001
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby zip001 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:08 pm

Bob I have reviewed your web site. You have no idea how much it has helped already. I hope I am able to do even 1/2 as good a job as you. Working on a few pictures.
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready in the night to visit harm on those who would wish us evil.

zip001
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby zip001 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:08 pm

OK guys what am I doing wrong. I can't for the life of me get these photos to post right side up. It's gotta be a simple fix but I am clearing missing something. Either way here are a few photos that show some frame work, my transom in progress, and now I am setting up the building frame. Really just trying to figure out the picture thing for now.
Attachments
transom.jpg
transom in progress
frame parts.jpg
frame parts in progress
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready in the night to visit harm on those who would wish us evil.

zip001
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby zip001 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:16 pm

Got it figured out, just fired that last message off too soon. Sorry

transom.jpg
frame parts.jpg
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready in the night to visit harm on those who would wish us evil.

zip001
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby zip001 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:04 pm

I listened to Bob and decided to encapsulate my frames while it is easier to do. One side was done so I cheated and temporarily placed them on the building frame just for a quick look. Man did I get excited. Frames are back off and I encapsulated the other side tonight. A little more bracing and I should be ready to lock the frames into place by Friday or Saturday.

But of course I do have a question. I obviously cut the notches in the transom bottom frame but I have not notched any other frames. My plan is to cut the position for the keel only. It looks like 1 3/8" cut deep measured at the center is what I come up with. Should this be my goal or am I really trying to get the keep pretty much even with the frames in the dead center position (of each frame.)

My initial plan was to clamp the chine in place and make each cut as it needs to be made in each frame. Nothing pre-cut.

Any suggestions?

And yes, I do plan to get this boat out that door:) or my wife will kill me!
Attachments
IMG_0201.jpg
my first look at something resembling a boat
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready in the night to visit harm on those who would wish us evil.

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vupilot
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby vupilot » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:20 pm

I would cut your notches for the keel and battens before mounting the frames to the form. You can notch the chine and sheer as you go if you want pretty easily. Dont forgot to NOT notch the transom plywood but DO notch the transom frames completely including the chine and sheer before epoxing them to the transom ply or else youll have to notch the assembly with a router later. Learned that lesson before I had a router. :roll:

The keel should sit a little proud in the notch for fairing.

zip001
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby zip001 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:02 am

Thanks. The transom frame is already cut and glued up so I have that frame notched already. I plan to work on the others this weekend if all goes well. My son is coming up this weekend, I may have an extra set of hands:)
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready in the night to visit harm on those who would wish us evil.

zip001
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Re: New Malahini Build "Finally"

Postby zip001 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:30 pm

Man did I get a lot accomplished this weekend. I have to admit I did as much as I could ahead of time like cutting all chines, sheers, keep, etc.. so that when I needed them they were laying ready. I started this weekend on Friday night by setting the frames on the building platform and getting the spacing. I ended here as of about an hour ago.
end of a long weekend.jpg
end of a long weekend



Chines are just clamped in place. I took Bob's advice and pre-cut the notches for the chines and the sheers. I only had to round off corners for the bends otherwise they fit like a glove. I have ordered the bronze carriage bolts but they will not arrive until Wed. I could not attache the stem, or didn't want to until I had everything I needed on hand.

I did encounter one problem which I can't believe I screwed up. I beveled my transom bottom and transom frame bottom separately. I then carefully place them and glued them. I didn't notice that I beveled the frame in the wrong direction.
my mistake.jpg
my mistake


As you can see this give me a lot less (about 1/2) surface area to attach the bottom panel too.
less surface area.jpg
less surface area


Looking for the best way to take care of this. I was thinking I could go ahead and trim and glue a piece in place and then sand to the right profile. I was also thinking I could let it go, attach the bottom panel, and as soon as I do the flip I could fill in the area with one big filet with thickened epoxy. Looking for suggestions. I am not worried about cosmetic (I can cover it) just thinking about structural integrity.

Hope to get stem on and carefully aligned by this Friday. If I actually get this weekend to be around and work on the boat, I plan to start with hot baths :) for my chines and getting them into position. I will likely never make the gathering in my boat but I have already put in for vacation time during the time period. Would be great to meet many of you.
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready in the night to visit harm on those who would wish us evil.


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