Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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mrintense
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Re: Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Post by mrintense » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:29 pm

I spent a week mocking up my interior to get a better feel for everything. This includes potential fuel tanks as mine are going to be built in. I would not put them in the cabin if possible. Depending upon the size and type of motor you you plan on hanging off the back, the weight may be considerable. As you mentioned you could move the batteries back there. In fact the start battery should be back there anyway I believe.

If you are not going to have a built in fuel tank, you can experiment by placing it in different locations when you first get her on the water.

I know, so many things to think about. It can be overwhelming at times.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

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Adrock1
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Re: Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Post by Adrock1 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:17 am

My intent was to use a permanent "below deck" tank because the tank will be completely concealed inside the frame work of the rear bench and motor well. It won't be moveable.

If I end up putting two tanks in the aft corners on either side of the motor well they would definitely be pretty much permanent once the deck goes on because there would be no way to get them out without cutting off the deck.

Batteries are a different story. I'll have the option to relocate them fairly easily down the road if need be.

My concern really revolves around my deviation from the plans. Per the plans the fuel tank should go all the way aft at the transom under a rear seat. I chose to install a large motor well though, and consequently have moved the rear seating forward one frame. This moves the weight of the passengers forward and the weight of the tank too if it remains under the seat. It's only between frames one and two so probably still aft of the center of buoyancy so maybe it's no big deal.

I also plan to install a motor at the upper end of the acceptable HP range although my intent is to use an older lighter two stroke and not a huge heavy new four-stroke.

I'm starting to think that a single tank under the rear bench is going to be the way to go and that I should just plan to keep my options open with respect to battery placement. A pair of tanks with one in each aft corner would be more costly, more difficult to plumb and fill and more difficult to remove in the future should that ever be required.

Based on how that effects balance I could then decide whether one or both batteries should go either forward under the front seats or in the aft compartments. Whatever spaces are left unspoken for can then serve simply as storage.

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Re: Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Post by Adrock1 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:48 am

Time for an update. Lots of work has been completed since my last update. Unfortunately not many pics to offer since I lost almost all my pics of the boat when my phone recently croaked. Here is a link to a current pic.

https://imageshack.us/i/poFrt39Cj

https://imageshack.us/i/pmuOaHOQj

Sorry I can't embed from my phone.

Anyway, I have completely installed the cockpit sole and foam flotation and pretty well finished framing up the motorwell. Also have the interior fully healed up with tinted epoxy. Working on putting the plywood on the deck in preparation for planking.

I am also motor shopping. And this is where I need some help. I called Glen l for some direction on the max HP and more importantly max weight for this design. It seems there is not a definitive limit defined.The plans say anything from 10hp up.

I'm looking for something in the 80-100hp range. I've dramatically beefed up the transom and knee and have a sturdy motor well framed up. So I confident she'll handle whatever I bolt on her. My concern is weight. What is everyone's opinion on the max motor weight I should consider?

Motor weights seem to vary dramatically with some modern 4 strokes in the 80-100 range going over 400 pounds. Older 2 strokes in that range can be found under 300 lbs. I know lighter is better and too much weight is bad. But what's too much?

I found an early 2003 Mercury 125hp two stroke for example that weighs in at 348lbs. It's got low hours and comes with controls at a good price. It's more power than I want but not excessively so. It would push the boat fully loaded into the low 40s probably. Anyway it appears to be a good deal on a nice motor but 348lbs seems like a lot.

I've found a similar deal on a 90 hp Mercury from the same era and it's just over 300lbs. So not much lighter despite being a three cylinder instead of a four. The power is more reasonable but it's also a couple hundred bucks more and doesn't come with controls.

So what are everyone's thoughts on a reasonable limit on the amount of motor weight for my boat?

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mrintense
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Re: Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Post by mrintense » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:38 pm

I can't say for sure what size motor you might use, but my 21 foot Vera Cruise is rated for a max of 125 HP. I was planning something in the 90 to 115 hp range. I also beefed up my transom and when I get to it, the motorwell will be strong as well. Boat's looking real good. :D
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Post by Bill Edmundson » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:38 pm

A 90 will push your boat nicely. the Bartender is 24' with a cuddy cabin. The 115 pushes it 35 MPH.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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Re: Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Post by Hercdrvr » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:06 pm

I run a 2 stroke Yamaha 90 (260lbs) on a Malahini, more hp would get scary. Bob Bandenstein runs a new 4 stroke 70hp Yamaha on his Malahini, very nice, quiete, and fuel efficient engine weighing in at 260 lbs too. My 2 stroke is a gas sucking machine compared to 4 strokes. What I like most about my engine is how it looks like it fits on my boat, not to big, and lots of power.
I know you’ve studied all the motor weights, I came to the conclusion that a new 380lb 90hp was too much for my boat.
If I had it to do again I might lean toward a Yamaha 70 or an Etec 90hp (320lbs) if I wanted to avoid the whole 2 stroke experience.
Reliability always trumps HP. Good luck finding a motor,
Matt B
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Re: Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Post by Adrock1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:51 pm

Hercdrvr wrote:I run a 2 stroke Yamaha 90 (260lbs) on a Malahini, more hp would get scary. Bob Bandenstein runs a new 4 stroke 70hp Yamaha on his Malahini, very nice, quiete, and fuel efficient engine weighing in at 260 lbs too. My 2 stroke is a gas sucking machine compared to 4 strokes. What I like most about my engine is how it looks like it fits on my boat, not to big, and lots of power.
I know you’ve studied all the motor weights, I came to the conclusion that a new 380lb 90hp was too much for my boat.
If I had it to do again I might lean toward a Yamaha 70 or an Etec 90hp (320lbs) if I wanted to avoid the whole 2 stroke experience.
Reliability always trumps HP. Good luck finding a motor,
Matt B

Well you convinced me. If 90 is pushing the limits from a performance standpoint anyway a 125 on my comparably sized Overniter is gonna be absurd. I just can't see putting that kind of weight on it either.

The seller was willing to negotiate on the 90 Merc so that's what I've done. Sorting shipping details etc now.

This motor will weigh in right at 300lbs which I think is pretty good for a 90 hp and doesn't exceed the limit Glen L suggested. Should push her along nicely even with a heavy load.

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Re: Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Post by Hercdrvr » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:41 am

I will say this about my 90hp (13.25x17” prop) Malahini, when it’s loaded with 4 adults and gear the performance drop is significant. I bought a 15” prop but haven’t tested it yet. Speed with just me on calm water is 45mph (17” prop). Full boat with afternoon lake chop is 35mph. My boat begins to have some unfavorable characteristics when I get above 800lb load. It starts to porpoise a little, might be because I have motor mounted pretty high for speed, ventilation plate is 1” above the bottom of boat.
Way more information than you wanted, just fun stuff to think about.
Matt B

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Re: Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Post by Adrock1 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:21 am

Hercdrvr wrote:I will say this about my 90hp (13.25x17” prop) Malahini, when it’s loaded with 4 adults and gear the performance drop is significant. I bought a 15” prop but haven’t tested it yet. Speed with just me on calm water is 45mph (17” prop). Full boat with afternoon lake chop is 35mph. My boat begins to have some unfavorable characteristics when I get above 800lb load. It starts to porpoise a little, might be because I have motor mounted pretty high for speed, ventilation plate is 1” above the bottom of boat.
Way more information than you wanted, just fun stuff to think about.
Matt B

I'd be perfectly happy with that level of performance. I have no need or desire to go crazy fast. Top speed of about 40 and the ability to cruise comfortably at about 30 without pushing the engine too hard is perfect I think. At least for a 16' runabout.

The main reason I wanted to be near the upper range of acceptable power for this boat is exactly what you described. Four adults and gear is a serious load for a boat this size. My buddy has 16' tracker fishing boat with a new 60hp four stroke and we've had four people fishing out of it before and with the live well full we couldn't get the boat on plane. And forget trying to pull a skier or something like that.

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Re: Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Post by Adrock1 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:54 am

So I have this 2005 Mercury 90elpto on the way. I have started researching controls and I'm just totally lost as far as what I need.

The motor will come with nothing as far as I know. Can anyone point me towards some good information on how to install and rig this motor?

Can anyone breakdown for me what I will need? I'm pretty clear on how to do the steering. What I'm not clear on is the throttle/shift/ignition and basic wiring for the motor. I want to do a side mounted engine control with concealed cables.

I see various varieties of Mercury brand controls that come with a wiring harness. I also see several brands of aftermarket controls that obviously don't come with a harness. I'm assuming if I bought something like a telefax control I'd also have to buy a Mercury wiring harness?

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Re: Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Post by Adrock1 » Tue May 22, 2018 7:07 pm

Well, progress lately has been a bit slow. Been accumulating parts mostly. I've got a fuel tank, bilge pumps, hydraulic steering kit, hardware to mount the engine, boarding ladder, and a few other odds and ends.

I really need to settle on controls and gauges. I have a 2005 Mercury 90 elpto and am at a loss as to what controls I need. I've been scouring the internet, forums, YouTube, etc. I just have no clue what to get.

Does anybody have some advice how to figure this out? Sources who can help me get the right stuff? I don't know what gauges my engine will support, what remote control harness I need, what controls. Any thoughts?

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