Overniter in SC: Flipped 5-27-17

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by Bill Edmundson » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:28 am

You don't use nails or screws. That would make a weak line across the hull. Just like tear off perforations on checks.

Bill
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Adrock1
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by Adrock1 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:41 am

Bill Edmundson wrote:You don't use nails or screws. That would make a weak line across the hull. Just like tear off perforations on checks.

Bill
Absolutely. That I understand clearly. Like I said I just assumed that meant no glue either.

Again, is this what everyone does? Glue the planking to the frames but not nail/screw it? I feel like the book and the specifications that came with the plans weren't explicit about this.

And if I haven't said so yet thanks for being patient with this novice. Just want to make sure I understand the process clearly.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by Bill Edmundson » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:47 am

You don't have much choice on a cold mold. You grab just about anything to get the sub-planking to take shape. On my Bartender, they have a video that show them gluing to the frames. I'm sure some people don't.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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tcough
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by tcough » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:52 am

What Bill said. I only attached my sheer, chine, and keel to the frames, along with the ends of the knee and stem. Only the plywood sides and bottom are glued to the frames and when I flip it, I'll add some epoxy fillets at the plywood/frame junction. BUT NO FASTNERS!
Happy Boating,
Tracy

Building a 19'-9" Flats Flyer

Adrock1
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by Adrock1 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:03 pm

I get what your saying about a cold mold Bill. Makes perfect sense. You would have to glue the planking to the frames in that case to achieve the shape.

So to be clear what I should do is carefully bevel and fair the the longitudinals AND frames to ensure good uniform contact with the plywood hull panels. Then apply glue to all longitudinals AND edges of the frames but secure this panels with screws in the longitudinals only. After the flip then I could finish off the glue joints between the hull panels and the frames with some nice smooth filets.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by Bill Edmundson » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:13 pm

Adrock1

That is what I've done. I don't think you need to make epoxy fillets. Caulk will do. I just want to seal the joints.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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gap998
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by gap998 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:30 pm

Really looking forward to this build - Overniter is a really useful design; I don't know why there aren't more of them out there.
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

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Adrock1
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by Adrock1 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:38 pm

Awesome. Thanks for the help guys.

Gary, I was surprised as well that not many people seem to have built the Overniter. If you've seen the pics of Owe Pedersons build you can see it makes a really handsome boat. And compared to most of the other designs in the 16' range it's a sizeable boat. Plenty of freeboard and a wide beam. I really love the elevated sheer around the deck and the coaming running from the windshield combine to give a really gorgeous profile in my opinion.

It creates some useable space up under the deck as well. Most of the runabout designs fail to make good use of that space. I'm not sure if I will use that space for a double berth as designed or perhaps just storage space and somewhere to stash a little porta pottie for the girls but either way it really increases the utility of the design in my opinion.

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tcough
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by tcough » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:51 pm

Bill Edmundson wrote: That is what I've done. I don't think you need to make epoxy fillets. Caulk will do. I just want to seal the joints.
Bill - when you say caulk, what material are you talking about? I'll have an open cockpit that will be fiberglassed so fillets are needed at the corners. But in the few areas below decks, caulking could be easier depending on what is involved.
Happy Boating,
Tracy

Building a 19'-9" Flats Flyer

hoodman
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by hoodman » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:09 pm

What I've been doing I wouldn't consider a fillet, but after a hull panel is glued and screwed on I get underneath and just work some epoxy into the corner between the frame and plywood skin. There is usually plenty that has oozed out anyways and I just smooth it out with a mixing stick. I always take a utility knife and cut the rounded part off of the mixing sticks so they are "square." Then I can use that to clean up various epoxied areas. I use wood flour to thicken my epoxy and it makes a nice wood colored paste, and wood flour is super cheap. Sawdust would probably be ok but the wood flour is much finer and makes a smoother mixture.
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Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by Bill Edmundson » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:41 pm

Tracy

3M4200 is fine. 5200 might be better. But, I hate working with that stuff!

Bill
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mrintense
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by mrintense » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:55 pm

I also faired my frames so that the skins fit up against them and then applied epoxy to the frame edges when the skins where added. On my design, this was especially important on the side skins since they would otherwise only be attached at the chine and sheer (no side battens in my design).

The one gotcha that you need to be careful of is getting the fit too exact because all of the epoxy will get squeezed out if the fit is too good. Also you don't want to create a hard spot under the plywood where the frame is.

I believe the Boabuilding book does say somewhere that using epoxy to attach the skins to the frames is okay as I remember this being one of my questions before fairing the structure.

As for the fillets Bill mentioned, I used thickened epoxy and smoothed it with my finger (in a nitrile glove of course). In my case I wasn't worried about the color because all of this will be painted white except one area up front which I added a bit of mahogany sanding dust to the mix to get a browner color that blended with the frames. The plywood in this area will still be painted white. And actually, if things work out, I will be adding slats on the interior between the frames so the seams won't be visible anyways.
Carl
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gdcarpenter
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by gdcarpenter » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:56 pm

I feel that a good epoxy joint between the ply and frames helps 'hold' the shape of the hull and prevents 'gaps' for water to collect. . Glue, no screws, into frames. The fairing process should assure full contact between frame and ply.

I used no screws on the side hull ply of my ZIP, only clamps to chine and sheer. I also used ratchet straps where the frames were to insure a tight bond ply to frame. Once clamped and strapped I crawled underneath the upside down boat and used the squeeze out between the frame and ply to create small fillets on both sides of the frame, effectively killing two birds with one stone.
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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by Adrock1 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:25 pm

More great info guys. Thanks for the feedback and pics. THe more I think about this the more i like the idea of having everything sealed up with glue so there are fewer places for water to hide.

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Re: Overniter in SC

Post by Adrock1 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:07 am

Hey guys. Got started cutting out frames over the weekend. I won't bore you with pics of that. Decided not to go with half lap joints. I'm going to use a self centering doweling jig to aid in aligning parts and adding some strength. I'll illustrate that with some photos for those that are interested when I get to that point.

Anyway I'm looking forward to my next steps and could use some recommendations. In particular as it relates to fasteners. Is it worth it to buy the fatening kit or did you guys prefer to buy hardware as you go? I know there are instances where nails or screws can be used interchangeably. I'm wondering if it's best to choose as I go based on what I prefer to use for a given task. If I buy the whole kit and find I prefer nails to screws for a specific task I may not have enough of what I need and too much of what I don't.

I'm also planning on using the system three products and was going to start off with the gel magic glue. Can anyone help me understand how much I should purchase for a project this size?

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