Monaco Restart

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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speedracer
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Monaco Restart

Postby speedracer » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:05 pm

I have entitled this string “Monaco Restart” because I had to quit work on the boat a few years ago. Diagnosed with prostate cancer at age 49 but I have it under control for now thanks to the people at MD Anderson in Houston, so I am getting back on my boat and glad to be able to do so.

I have read the entire string “Making progress on my Monaco” by sscobra (I think that’s Skip) several times and am quite impressed with the workmanship thus far and the very helpful responses. In looking at the builds, I realize I will have to bring my A game to keep up. I have ordered the finishing planks for the hull and will begin that process soon.

I think I’ve got the planking process understood so my current line of questions has to do with the finishing of the hull. Bear with me as I’ve done a lot of wood working projects but no boats! After reading everything I could, it seems like it falls into two areas of my preferences – the portion that is fiber glassed/painted and the portion that is stained and epoxied. It appears that the general process is to (1) stain the Mahogany sections to the finish one wants, (2) then seal the entire hull using CPES (or an equal) with as many coats as needed until there is no more absorption, (3) cover the portions to be painted with fiberglass and blend the edges, (4) apply epoxy on the entire hull with the needed number of coats, (5) prime and paint the bottom, (6) sit back and admire the work with a beer.

Obviously there are many intermediate steps of drying time, filling, sanding, fairing, etc, but I am just trying to understand the general steps. I may have misunderstood some of the above. Two things I am concerned about and may have wrong. First, it seems like I’ve read that maybe CPES is used before staining but I’m not sure I got that right. Second, is epoxy applied over the fiberglass before the paint or is the epoxy only applied where the natural wood is and the paint applied directly to the fiberglass bottom?

Anyone who wishes to comment on my understanding of the finishing process will be greatly appreciated. Chris
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. Albert Einstien

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sscobra
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby sscobra » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:11 pm

Chris, CPES is used after staining, but before epoxying. You only need to use CPES if you are using an oil based stain, like Interlux. Epoxy won't stick to an oil based stain. If you use a water or alcohol based stain, then there is no need to use CPES. It is a little strange because CPES stands for Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer, so you wouldn't think CPES would stick to an oil based stain. I guess it works because it is so thin, it penetrates the stain and seals it. I used CPES on the entire hull, just for a little added protection. It is not necessary to do the portions of the hull that are not stained, but it doesn't hurt to do so. You use epoxy to hold the fiberglass cloth in place and put on as many coats of epoxy as needed to fill the weave of the cloth. Some builders fiberglass the entire hull. I decided to only fiberglass the portions of the hull that I was going to paint (up to the waterline). I had heard that in some cases the fiberglass cloth weave will show when sun light hits it at the right angle. Other have said that they have never had the weave show. I just decided that I didn't want to fiberglass the portions of the hull that I am staining. I used 6 (if I remember correctly) coats of epoxy on the entire hull, sanding after 1 or 2 coats to feather the fiberglass cloth into the unglassed areas of the hull. I used System Three Silver Tip epoxy because it does not have an amine blush that has to be washed off between each coat. Some builders put all the coats of epoxy on in one very long day and night to be sure that all the coats bond together. System Three epoxy can go as long as three days between coats and the coats will still bond to each other. I put one coat on per day. After you get the weave of the fiberglass completely filled, let the epoxy cure for a week, then you can paint the bottom. I used several primer coats before I painted the bottom. Most builders don't find that necessary. Hope this helps. Skip
Built the Glen-L Monaco, 2016.

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DrBryanJ
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby DrBryanJ » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:20 am

Chris: a critical step you left off is varnish over the epoxy bright finish. From reading the forum it seems 5 or 6 coats of varnish minimum for UV protection.
Bryan

Building a malahini "Mona Lisa"

My wife said "If I build a boat, she's getting a divorce."

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speedracer
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby speedracer » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 am

Thanks Skip and Bryan. I intend to use oil based stain so the CPES will work and is a product I also want to use after much research and successful use by others. I am only fiberglassing the bottom so the epoxy goes on the stained areas as well as the fiberglass areas? Then paint on the bottom and varnish on the wood areas? Can't wait to get to that step but have a long road ahead.

Any suggestions on the best place to get the products?

Thanks again and a happy Forth of July to everyone online today.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. Albert Einstien

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sscobra
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby sscobra » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:16 am

Chris, yes the epoxy goes over the entire hull. Then paint the bottom and clear over the wood areas. I used a 2 part poly instead of varnish over the mahogany since it lasts much longer and doesn't need as much maintenance. I bought the fiberglass cloth, epoxy, and all the application materials from Glen-L. I used Interlux stain, paint, and 2 part poly and bought them from places like Wholesale Marine. Epifanes makes their own version of theses and are very good also. If you google the products, you will find them on sale at various places. I bought the CPES at Vintage Trailer. I prefer the Smith version of the CPES, however, it has a terrible smell. Jamestown has their own version of it that doesn't smell, but I don't like it as much. Skip
Built the Glen-L Monaco, 2016.

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BayouBengal
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby BayouBengal » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:11 pm

So happy to hear that you have your cancer under control.

I think we're all inspired and impressed with Skip's work and what a great and kindly sharing source of information he is.

I'm not too far down the road from you in BR if you're ever in need of help.

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speedracer
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby speedracer » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:19 pm

Skip, I think I got this part under control. I have about a million other questions for the next steps but will hold them until I get there.

Bayou Bengal, Thanks for the offer to help. The forum has builders from all over the world. Nice to know you're only an hour away when (not if) I get into trouble. I haven't quite figured out everything on this forum so if you have any photos/information showing any of your work, I'd be privileged to take a look to learn more.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. Albert Einstien

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BayouBengal
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby BayouBengal » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:46 am

Skip and others will be a be a better source of info than I regarding the Monaco and similar builds, since they're actually building or have built these models. But being somewhat local, I'll be glad to help with generic things like helping you flip, and/or being able to take a firsthand physical look at your finish (an area that I've developed some expertise through a lot of trial and error), and/or drinking a beer and lamenting about all the sanding that has to be done. By the way, we also have a local ACBS Chapter that you may or may not be a member of with lots of local guys who build or refurbish boats and have a lot of knowledge that could benefit you as well as the camaraderie. And I'm sure you've been many times, but the Madisonville Wooden Boat Festival is coming up in October and there's much that can be learned there from builders and restorers who are not on this forum nor a member of the ACBS.

Regarding my work, I'd taken a lot of time to build what I thought was a pretty good website documenting my Squirt build on a (free) website, but the web hosting company that I set up the site through took all the free sites down and then tried to extort money from us to put them back up. I actually didn't object so much to the money they wanted, it was their tactics; I refused to be extorted. So, I need to remove that link from my posts. Here's the customer archive photos of my Squirt - http://www.glen-l.com/picboards/picboar ... 1061a.html. My present in progress build is a non-Glen-L design, but I''ve posted progress intermittently on this thread - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25138&p=146887#p146887

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speedracer
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby speedracer » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:18 pm

Thanks Jeff. I actually tried to look at that link and found the notification. I followed up with the other links you sent and looked at your projects. Fantastic work. Everyone's work makes my goals that much greater. I actually have never been to the Madisonvile Wooden Boat Festival but plan to this year. It's only 4 or 5 miles down the road! I'm shooting to be there with my boat in October 2017.

To any of the Monaco builders - What fin was used on your boat? The fin is not part of the hardware list so I was wondering what everyone used. Thanks.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. Albert Einstien

Ozzieboat
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby Ozzieboat » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:28 am

speedracer
I can't remember the Part# of the skid fin now, it is the same as 14-289 but has the "V" base to fit the angle of the keel. It does not seem to be listed on GL's site anymore! The fin is positioned under frame #4. I used the "Speed Rudder" 90-009, it looks like 91-268, but it is bronze and that is not listed anymore either. That combination seems to work very well with very light steering.

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Rich Coey
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby Rich Coey » Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:21 pm

Speedracer,
I used the 14-289 and routed a flat area to mount. Turns great. It is centered 105 inches forward of the transom.

Rich

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speedracer
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby speedracer » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:42 pm

Rich - I thought #14-289 would be the right fin but wanted to make sure. Ozzieboat - Part #90-009 does not show up indeed. How come you used a different rudder than listed in the part list? I have read that the rudder has to be "tweaked" for the boat to run and handle at optimum. Some one removed like an inch here and an inch there! Is this why you decided on different one? Where do you think I should hunt for the best one to use?

Rich - What rudder did you use?

Thinking ahead, what props are you guys running?

I'm getting ready to place an order (or hunt for the best options) for all of these items so any advice will be greatly apprecited. Sorry for all the questions.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. Albert Einstien

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Rich Coey
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby Rich Coey » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:31 pm

My rudder is from my donor boat, a '67 Century Resorter. It is small, about 6 1/2 x 7 inches.
I have a Acme 13 x 12.625 prop for most of the time. If we are going to be pulling skiers or tubes I use a Acme 13 x 11.

Rich

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speedracer
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby speedracer » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:13 pm

I am getting some expert advice on the power train for my Monaco. Does anyone know how much this model weighs when complete - roughly? Thanks, Chris.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. Albert Einstien

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Monaco Restart

Postby Bill Edmundson » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:43 pm

Speed,

I don't know for sure. I'm guessing 1800 to 2000 without engine and fuel.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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