Cabin Design Considerations

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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mrintense
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Cabin Design Considerations

Postby mrintense » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:23 am

For some time now, I have been considering how I am going to layout the cabin on my Vera Cruise. The plans call for the helm to be outside the cabin with the cabin primarily set up as a camper (i.e. bunks, dinette, head, galley, hanging closet). The cabin is separated from the aft cabin by a wall and a door.

Floorplan-Original.png


The original plans get a lot of use out of the cabin space, but the aft cabin area suffers some from having to accommodate the helm and the motor well. Four people could use the boat at the same time, but the aft cabin would be somewhat crowded unless someone were to go into the cabin.

In Texas, it gets real hot in the summer so I think that people would only want to be in the cabin if it presented a cooler retreat. Fans and ventilation would help (especially underway), but when the boat is setting still, then I think only air conditioning would would make it bearable.

However what I want to address is the space. About 15 months ago, I redesigned the interior to eliminate the dinette and hanging closet and move the galley and head to the aft part of the cabin. This extended the forward berths and made the interior feel more open (at least in the drawing). A place to eat would be provided by a stowable table that would be placed between the benches when it was time to eat.

Favorite Floorplan design.png


However, I also came across several photos showing an alternative approach that I am really growing fond of. In this approach, the helm is moved forward into the cabin, much like a car. This is what is commonly called a sedan cruiser. The cabin aft of the helm is left open at the back so that the aft cabin and the cabin become one larger area for people. The toilet is moved to the "V" in the forward berthing area. This leaves all that space aft of the helm to put in comfortable seating and a cooler and still have room for a small galley if desired.

Unfortunately, the photos I have are from a site that is pretty strict about the use of their pictures so I cannot include them here. But I can provide a link to a new article on that site that has a good example of what I am thinking about.

http://www.woodyboater.com/blog/2016/07 ... shepherds/

What I am wondering about is is if there are any design considerations I need to be concerned about with this alternative approach. My design calls for a aft cabin wall partly as an enclosure but also to stiffen the hull. I think I could still accommodate this and leave the cabin open at the aft end. I realize that a longer steering cable (or lines) would be required.

I would be quite interested in what other's think about this idea.
Last edited by mrintense on Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Carl
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby Bill Edmundson » Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:16 pm

Carl

I'll try to give it some thought later. Right now my mind is fried. I'm going on the trailer in 2 weeks. I worked on the plumbing today, the galley and the front hatch. And, thought about trailer mods...

Bill
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Tony Hain
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby Tony Hain » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:35 pm

Carl
Living in a place that probably has a climate similar to Texas I personally think the Sedan cruiser is the better option. Also from the picture there seems to be much more room for people to move around.Sitting is fine underway but when you are anchored and socializing people want to be able to move around and mix easily. Inclement weather and storage can be delt with by having clip-on and roll down sides. Finally try and get your head height as high as possible. I see from the 1st drawing the head height is 64". God thats only 5' 4". People will soon have a sore neck or back after a day on the water stooped over like that. Just my thoughts, but Carl from the quality of the build and the attention to detail you put in, I am certain whatever you choose to do will be great.
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mrintense
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby mrintense » Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:24 pm

Yeah, the cabin height is too low. I drew up concept drawing a few years ago that I believe raised the roof a scale 8 inches. It was a challenge getting that to look right on the hull. I feel like I succeeded with that, especially after some feedback from others here on the forum. But the trick of course will be to create that in real life.

I agree that the sedan cruiser style gives more room to roam around and unless there is some compelling reason not to do this, I believe I will go with that approach. The other thing I like about it is that it gives me more flexibility in laying out the interior. I have numerous ideas that I want to mock up and see how it will look. Can't hardly wait for those days!
Carl
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby SunFun » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:37 pm

Carl,
It almost sounds like you are changing your mind on how you plan to use the boat. Do you need a "cruiser"? To me your post describes a boat for "day boating" with an occasional overnight. To me, a 21ft boat would be a tiny cruiser, but a decent size day boat.

The Shepherd you show is essentially what today is called a Cuddy Cabin boat with a hardtop. I am on my second cuddy cabin and I love them for the type of boating I do. We hang out in the aft part of the boat (cockpit) all day and crash in the cuddy at night. My first one, a 23ft boat shown it the attached pictures, had a small cabin with a v-berth up front, a small head on the starboard side and a small sink on the port.

With a good size hatch, the cuddy would work to catch a quick nap and get out of the sun. It was usually nice and cool. The separate head was essential. No fun waking your significant other to use the porta-potty that is under the bead!

I wouldn't worry too much about head room in the cockpit, especially if the very back part is open. People can sit if they want to be in the shade.

Looks like your fun is just beginning! I saw that Shepherd this morning and fell in love with it! I will be closely following your build.

Scott
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby mrintense » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:52 pm

Scott,

Actually what you describe for using the boat is how I envisioned my typical usage. I never really thought of it as a live aboard (too small for that) and there are few places here for extended trips so even a two or three day trip is likely to happen very rarely (if ever). Now that I've had a chance to get out on the water a bit and think this through, a comfortable day boat makes the most sense for the type of boating I want to do.

I like the idea of the head off to the side, but not sure if that can be accommodated in this boat. I'll know more when I start mocking things up.
Carl
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SunFun
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby SunFun » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:03 pm

Carl,
I hear you on the space for the head. This was one of the smallest boats most had seen with a separate head. It sold fast just because of that.
The head was very small. Most users didn't even close the door as it blocked the view thru the main door to the cuddy when open anyway.

Take a look at current boats for ideas on how to use the space. Boat designs of today are very creative and they will give you many ideas.
Good luck and have fun!

Scott
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psychobilly
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby psychobilly » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:37 am

My head is hidden under the V-berth and works well.


Here's a shot of it uncovered and ready to use.

Mastercraft003.JPG



Here's a shot of it covered up.

Mastercraft002.JPG


Just a small piece of carpet to cover it from the bed square.

rsDSC00324.JPG



But I like the helm outside the cabin so you can feel the wind in your face.

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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby mrintense » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:36 pm

Took another look at my boat this morning, considering this sedan cruiser idea. still very much like this style of interior, but a bit concerned that the helm would be so far forward that there would be too short of a space for the berths. Of course this observation was mostly made while driving to work after take a quick glance at the boat on the way out the door! :D :D

I guess that's why I want to make mock ups !
Carl
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby Adrock1 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:43 am

Tell ya what Carl. I looked at the link you provided and that sedan style is gorgeous. I really like the lines a lot. Very handsome.

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Andy Garrett
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby Andy Garrett » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:50 am

Sedan cruiser solves a lot of space usage issues in my mind.

You'd need to have windows that you could open for airflow and ventilation, but if it were me..., that's how I'd do it.
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:17 pm

Carl

I've been thinking about this for while. I'm trying to put the galley in now. Our boats, useable space are about the same size. I don't know where I would fit a helm in the cabin. I going with a big canvas set to enclose the outside helm.

Of coarse Lauren wants a 3 br house in a 24'boat!

Bill
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:06 pm

Carl

What if you stepped the roof up and made a hardtop over the helm?

Bill
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mrintense
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby mrintense » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:32 pm

Bill Edmundson wrote:What if you stepped the roof up and made a hardtop over the helm?


I'm hoping to retain the good looks from the side. The cabin is quite low though. I believe I can raise it 8 inches and still maintain a nice shape.

Heck, I don't know! :roll: :roll: It's really hard to visualize this with the hull being empty and the cabin missing. But that does bring up a good point. I should definitely mock up the cabin sides when I do this. At this point, it's just a strong desire I have to go forward with.

Regardless which option I go with though, there will be a bimini for the aft cabin.
Carl
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

SunFun
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby SunFun » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:56 pm

Carl,
Ever since you posted this, I can't stop looking at that Shepherd. At least I'm a year or 2 away from my build, so i'm very interested on how this goes.
I assume the the 5'4" of headroom in the Vera Cruise cabin is due to a step down from the aft area?
How much head room would there be from a flat deck? The Shepherd doesn't look like anyone could stand up in it either.

Can you get out on a boat or go boat shopping and try with the canvas up? This might give you an idea how much headroom you need. When we get caught in the rain on my boat and put up the canvas, there is not height to stand, but it doesn't feel cramped sitting down or crouching to move around. The sedan hardtop is more permanent, but at least there is an open area at the back to stretch out.

Like you said earlier on your build thread, now is the fun building time!

Scott


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