Cabin Design Considerations

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby mrintense » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:52 pm

Scott, you've got me wondering about that floor now! You are correct, there is a drop in the cabin floor from the aft cabin. I suspect this is possible because of the increase in hull angle as you move forward. If I extend the floor from the aft cabin all the way forward at the same height, I will certainly loose a couple of inches in headroom (5'2" yikes!!)

More likely, I would have to retain the drop. Depending upon the needs of the interior, I might be able to increase the width of the dropped area. but would rapidly run into the frames as they angle upward.

If I can indeed get an extra 8" out of the cabin sides without distortion, then the interior head room would be better.
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby mrintense » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:44 pm

Well, I am revisiting this thread in order to garner further ideas. I discussed my idea of an open cabin with Gayle at Glen L and it appears that this is doable. So I sat down and started drawing up floor plan ideas assuming the helm is moved forward into the front of the cabin.

One significant difference between the Shepherd in the photos (available here:
http://www.woodyboater.com/blog/2016/07 ... shepherds/ )

and my interior is the extra difference forward of the helm. In the Shepherd, the vee berth is still long enough to sleep in. On my boat, assuming that the helm is just aft of the forward cabin windows, there would only be about 4 feet max length available, too short to stretch out.

I am considering several ideas here, trying to remain open minded and think out of the box for solutions, so all comments are welcome here. I would like to think of this thread as a brain storming session, so please comment on this thread.

Here are some of the ideas I have thought about

1. Move Helm forward in cabin to just aft of the front windows. Only one seat would be in this area and that would be the helm seat. The other side would be open to the vee berth, essentially extending from the berth out into the cabin and giving me the extra length needed for sleeping (but only one person)

2. Move the helm further back in the cabin, perhaps to the second set of windows on the side so that the vee berth could be long enough. Not sure I like this idea though, but open to improving on it.

3. Go back to the original helm station on the outside of the cabin (original designed position), but leave the cabin bulkhead to the left open as in the shepherd. This retains most of the openness and eliminates the vee berth problem. The bulkhead in front of the helm would be full height cutting off a view into the cabin.

4. A variation on #3 where the bulkhead in front of the helm is also removed and the helm becomes a sort an island helm station just aft of the opening into the cabin. This allows viewing into the cabin and still retains the vee berth and openness. I kind of like this idea.

I know it may be difficult to visualize these but I would very much appreciate discussion on this in case someone else has additional ideas or improvements to the ideas I mentioned.

One additional consideration. I feel that styling of the interior plays a critical role in how this works out and is perceived. So styling thoughts are also welcome.
Carl
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby Adrock1 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:29 am

Carl,

I think you need to really spend some time think about your priorities and how you envision really using the boat in real life the majority of the time. Consider what's important and rank the importance of the various accommodations to decide what you really need.

For example, is sleeping space really a necessity? Be honest, how often will you spend the night on the boat? And how many people does it need to sleep? If it's two people then the full length v berth is going to be the most efficient use of the space possible for that purpose. So lock in on that.

Next is the separate head a must? If the boat is going to be used for just day tripping the overwhelming majority of the time then it makes much more sense to conceal it under the v berth. That will free up a lot of room. Are you really going to overnight often? If so a separate head is very desirable as another poster said so you don't have to disturb someone sleeping to use the head. So lock in on that.

Next is the galley. Again, are you really going to cook on the boat? If you plan on making hot meals frequently then yeah, you need a capable galley. If not a little sink and maybe an ice chest should be plenty. You can save space that way. So lock in on your real requirements for a galley.

Lastly how do you anticipate people using the space typically? More time at anchor or underway? If underway people will be mostly seated and stationary. They will want to be seated in close proximity to each other in order to be able to speak over the sound of the engine and wind. Do you want to be secluded alone in the cabin at an inside helm while everyone else is outside in the rear cockpit enjoying the breeze? Will everyone want to squeeze in the cabin while underway? At anchor people will want to stretch out, move around, have a choice between shade or sun so consider that.

Like I said before I think those shepherds are gorgeous. Not so practical in my opinion though. Based on what you have said about the boats intended use I wouldnt go the sedan route. Especially not in a sunny hot climate. Here is what I would do:

Start with a basic cuddy cabin configuration. Start with the a full length v berth up front. Behind that to one side put a small sink with an ice chest/fridge underneath for drinks. Accross from the sink a small enclosed head. Leave out the settee. This space would be separated from the cockpit by a bulkhead. Put the helm station and passenger seat immediately behind that bulk head. I would put a hard top with standing headroom over the forward half of the rear cockpit and leave the aft end of the cockpit in the open air. Consider maybe adding a removable soft top that could extend the overhead coverage all the way back. In the rear cockpit you could have U shaped bench with a removable table.

With that configuration you'd have ample.space for a couple to sleep, a separate head and sink and enough space for drinks and sandwiches. If you could squeeze in a small microwave you could even heat up pre made meals on the rare occasion you'll actually need to prepare more than a snack. You wouldn't be preparing hot sit down meals so no need for the settee or full galley. Save the space for the cockpit. Doing so leaves a large amount of space for the rear cockpit. The hard top over the helm and passenger seats creates some space to get out of the sun and weather without fucking into the cabin. The U shaped bench provide a place for folks to gather and chat and soak up the sun. Add the table if you want to put out a spread of snacks and sandwiches. Take it out and you have room to move around. Put up the removable top to cover the rest of the cockpit to provide shade for everyone or get out of the weather.

The only downside to this configuration is the absence of a second berth for a second couple. The advantage is much more space in the cockpit.

The veracruise, as designed, I think makes a decent compact cruiser for a single couple that really envision some overnight cruising. There is plenty of space to spend a couple nights aboard and room for two to enjoy the ride in the rear cockpit while underway. When the program for the boat is changed to be a platform for day tripping and entertaining more than one couple the configuration needs to change. For that application no one wants to be cooped up in the cabin when underway or at anchor. Provided you have at least a Bimini top on the cockpit so people can get some shade your better off sacrificing cabin space for cockpit space on a boat that's intended to be a day cruiser for entertaining larger groups.

The whole sedan concept like the pictures you posted makes more sense to me where warmth or protection from the weather would be important. Think cool season cruising in the rainy Pacific Northwest for example or in cooler northern climates. In sunny warm Texas open air space is going to be more desirable.

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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby hoodman » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:40 am

I was reading what Adrock had posted and realized that what he is describing is basically the cabin configuration of the Sea Knight. On the much larger Vera Cruise that configuration would put your helm maybe two or three feet forward and give you a really nice sized cockpit. Maybe a slightly shorter (in length) cabin will look better with a nice looking hardtop as Adrock described. Also, since you would not have the dinette and galley in the cabin, full standing headroom inside may not be as critical, so you would not have to raise the height of the cabin roof potentially spoiling the lines.

I think I know what you're thinking through all of this. That you don't want to mess up those classic lines of the stock Vera Cruise. However, you should build the boat that best suits you and I am confident that you will make it look great.

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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby Adrock1 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:01 pm

hoodman wrote:I was reading what Adrock had posted and realized that what he is describing is basically the cabin configuration of the Sea Knight. On the much larger Vera Cruise that configuration would put your helm maybe two or three feet forward and give you a really nice sized cockpit. Maybe a slightly shorter (in length) cabin will look better with a nice looking hardtop as Adrock described. Also, since you would not have the dinette and galley in the cabin, full standing headroom inside may not be as critical, so you would not have to raise the height of the cabin roof potentially spoiling the lines.

I think I know what you're thinking through all of this. That you don't want to mess up those classic lines of the stock Vera Cruise. However, you should build the boat that best suits you and I am confident that you will make it look great.



Matt's right. I was thinking of something more like the cabin on the "Two Plus" design. Then just imagine a hardtop coming off the top of the windshield and extending far enough back to provide shelter for at least the helm and front passenger seat with a removable Bimini top that cover the rest of the cockpit only as needed. Heck, if you went all out instead of just a Bimini type top you could get a removable soft enclosure that would totally enclose the cockpit and then that u shaped bench in the stern could convert to a double berth for guests.

Regardless, putting a more modestly sized cabin like that of the two plus onto the Vera cruise hull you would have a lot of great space in the bigger cockpit now available. If the primary.program is daytrippi g I think that's what you'll want. And you can still pretty well preserve the really attractive lines of the veracruise.

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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby mrintense » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:37 am

Thanks for the responses Matt and AdRock.

I have been considering the use of the boat quite a bit lately. I 'm on some downtime for medical reasons, so I have time to work on the layout of the cabin. I do intend on primarily using the boat during the day with occasional overnight stays. I want to keep the boat as open as possible but still retain enough functionality.

There will not be any sort of galley. What I am probably going to have is a narrow counter with sink and built in ice chest along one side.

The head is a must for us as my wife will not be happy if we don't have that on board. Unfortunately, there simply isn't enough head height at the bow to place it there, so it will have to be in the cabin somewhere. But I am not going to have a full height head. It will be something like that used on the Sea Knight in that it will be a box that has folding sides for privacy (or possibly some other sort of arrangement). The focus of all my design efforts is to avoid making the cabin feel claustrophobic. That's one of the reasons why I want the back end of the cabin open.

As for the helm, I've pretty much decided it will need to stay aft outside the cabin. Since the aft of the cabin will be open, I envision the helm as some form of island type helm. I'm still working on that design. But it will allow the driver to communicate with people in the cabin and with people in the cockpit.

And one final point. I think that under normal circumstances, there will be two to four people max on the boat. When giving rides that might go up to six, but that would be my personal limit for the number of people on board.
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby Adrock1 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:24 am

Carl I think your making the right decisions in terms of layout. I'm interested to see how you end up doing the helm. Should be interesting. In any event the veracruise is a nice sized boat and for a day tripper you won't regret maintaining a lot of space in the aft cockpit for everyone to stretch out. With the head, sink, and ice chest you'll have everything you need.

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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby chugalug » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:29 am

:D Thought you might want to see inside of dad's 1954 Chris-Craft(same size as the Vera)
IMG_0873[1].JPG
big open cockpit with full length camper canvas.tho this one has inboard motor
IMG_0874[1].JPG
simple v-berth(kinda messy with canvas parts)
IMG_0875[1].JPG
sink and galley shelves
Last edited by chugalug on Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby chugalug » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:33 am

:D And helm area
IMG_0876[1].JPG
wheel is traditional, mine is homemade(needs pinky ring) :lol:
IMG_0865[1].JPG
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby mrintense » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:23 pm

Here are two working drawings of floor plans. Neither is perfect and I am still struggling with the best blend of space and aesthetics. The sole (floor) is intended to be the same height front to back.

In both cases, not clearly shown, the aft cabin is open to the outside and the helm is an island on a pedestal. The head is intended to be a box that folds open to form a full height compartment when it is needed.

Long Settee Open Floor Plan.png


Dual Bench Open Floor Plan.png
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby ian bell » Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:03 pm

Hi Carl . I think the last diagram would be the best with the removal table . As for the head take a leaf out of wives club and sit down for all procedure's , your aim is not that good when rocking around and it will keep the area clean . For the door to the head you could use a vinyl concertina door . Like you I have had a lot health problems this year and have only started back on the Renagade , hope to have it on the water before Xmas
Ian

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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby chugalug » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:07 pm

:D that have a top like on the"Lazy Daze"? :D
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby Dave Grason » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:59 pm

chugalug, I wonder if you would have any photos showing your dad's Chris Craft from back away looking at it from a distance? I ask because to my way of thinking, experimenting with the height of the cabin is a really good way to upset the proportions that we often find so pleasing to the eye. And really, how it appear to the eye from a point of view that is back a distance, is more important than many people realize. Chris Craft spent a lot of time getting these dimensions correct and I know that this is one of the reasons that they became so popular - there were beautiful and this beauty evoked positive emotional responses in the viewers. I think that this is very important to the enjoyment of the craft when it's finally on the water.
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby mrintense » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:10 pm

Just as a reminder. I also spent some time trying to insure that a raised cabin roof would look right on my boat. Although it won't have that "chopped" look of some cruisers, I do feel that the design is pleasing to the eye. Here is the drawing that I intend to use as my guide. Of course, before committing anything to wood, I will be mocking up the side to make sure.

9_Mod.png
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Re: Cabin Design Considerations

Postby Adrock1 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:56 pm

Carl I definitely early like your second sketch best. If it were me I'd shorten the benches in the cabin a little and slide everything forward so the cabin bulk head is at frame three but that's just me.


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